First-gens – 1 too many?

[DavidS]

A relative in Florida has a neighbor that is considering selling his 69 Z/28. From the pictures I was emailed, it looks like everything checks out so far and I am thinking about flying down to check it out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7700.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7697.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_77021.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7701.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7703.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7704.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7705.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7709.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7712.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_7711.jpg

I don’t know though…..I have my 69 project already under way but this is a numbers matching 69 Z/28.

I know Dawg….finish what I have first……but this is a numbers matching 69 Z/28!

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

JUST MAKE SURE its not in the same shape your other car was. i honestly cant see a reason for having so many unless you plan to sell one of them? wen would you be able to drive each of them really? i dunno just me.

[My84Z]

I say if u can afford why the hell not lol

[DavidS]

JUST MAKE SURE its not in the same shape your other car was.
True, true, true!

i honestly cant see a reason for having so many unless you plan to sell one of them? wen would you be able to drive each of them really? i dunno just me.
That is the dilemma. I don't want or need a car museum. I would have to get rid either the 68 (a driver but I love the car) or the 69 (the car that is being made exactly the way a want it with a BB 427). The other option is just don't buy the Z.

I say if u can afford why the hell not lol
I can afford it, but more than 2 first gens might be trending towards insanity.

[TBerry95z28]

I say pick it up. you obviously want it lol

[DavidS]

I say pick it up. you obviously want it lol

Very True, but it really does not seem sane. If I go down to check it out, I would definitely end up buying it.

[Formula413]

Well look at it this way, no way you are letting your '69 go after everything that went into it, and it sounds like you don't want to sell the '68 either, so you would definitely be looking at owning three cars. Are you up for that?

[DavidS]

Well look at it this way, no way you are letting your '69 go after everything that went into it, and it sounds like you don't want to sell the '68 either, so you would definitely be looking at owning three cars. Are you up for that?

No.

If I bought it, the 68 or 69 would have to go.

Right now, I am leaning towards not getting the Z but my brain is having a hard time forgetting about it.

[SLP IROC-Z]

nice find! is the guy looking for big money?

[DavidS]

nice find! is the guy looking for big money?

He knows what the car is worth. I haven't negotiated it out with him but I believe it is between 30-35K.

[*LS1* Queen]

what the hell id say go check it out..u dont come across matching numbers cars like that too often...just got to figure out what would mean more to u to own

[DavidS]

what the hell id say go check it out..u dont come across matching numbers cars like that too often...just got to figure out what would mean more to u to own

That's been tough for me to figure out. I fall in love with all of them...

I'm becoming a mormon f-body polygamist.

[*LS1* Queen]

lol i hear ya..if i had the cash id live in garage with a collection of cars haha

[Motaboata]

if i had the cash id live in garage with a collection of cars haha

THIS!!!

[irockidz28]

^ i think that would be true for many of us lol

[*LS1* Queen]

isnt that what all normal people want??

haha

[ZFreie]

isnt that what all normal people want??

haha
I beg to disagree, none of us are normal....

[irockidz28]

if i had a place for it i would totally have another fbody lol

[Grovlet]

nahh 1 F-Body is enough for me..... But having multiple cars is definitely a must.... I mean can't drive a F-body in the snow... That requires a nice AWD or 4WD vehicle. Then when you you want to carve through 'Dragon's Tail' well then you need something else designed for handling.... Then you probably want a nice DD..... And the Wife needs a car or two.....

And you may have multiple choices for each.... So yeah 8-10 vehicles.... but hey cars are just supposed to get you from point 'A' to 'B' right??:sFun_explosive:

Ohh and David: At least go look at the car.... Worst case you sell one of the three for gas and parts for the others....:Thinking::confused2:

[Formula413]

Where's Dragon's Tail? I think my F bucket handles pretty good...

[ls6monte]

Tennesee I believe. 318 or so turns in 11 miles.

http://www.google.com/search?q=dragon's+tail+map&start=10&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1102&bih=815&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=nKLVTcTbJOjz0gGgxZSTBw&ved=0CB8QsAQ4Cg

[ZFreie]

That looks awesome!

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

that looks like a job for a BIKE!!!!!

[ZFreie]

that looks like a job for a BIKE!!!!! Or a road race ready wrx...my buddies is stock suspension and will run circles around my car in the corners lol

[*LS1* Queen]

i saw a bike get demolished on a show @ that place...it was one of those caught on tape shows

[DavidS]

Ohh and David: At least go look at the car.... Worst case you sell one of the three for gas and parts for the others....:Thinking::confused2:

He is the 3rd owner of the car and has had it for about 20 years. He did not post it for sale, but told my father-in-law he was thinking about selling it. I told the father-in-law to offer him 35 pending a trip out there by me to verify everything was legit. At first it seemed he was A-OK with everything, but now he is having second thoughts. I am not sure if he is holding out for more money or just does not want to sell it.

Either way, it makes my decision easier to just keep what I have and just be happy with with what I have.

I have been verifiying all the info I have with Jerry Macneish to make sure everything is legit, but I am not sure what is going to happen next.

[jeff68]

...but I am not sure what is going to happen next.

Oh, I bet you have a good idea. I think it goes something like this: Everything checks out as legit. The 'seller' is too attached and doesn't want to sell. You assure him that this car will be given proper attention and you're not some chump that is going to destroy the car. A few back-and-forths on price, and you end up hauling it home. At least that's how I hope it goes.

The car seems way too nice to pass up. No harm tucking it away for a little while until you finish the big block car.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

OR driving the car while the big block car is getting finished.....

[DAWG]

if I had funds I would buy and sell the 68.
but every car needs work and that one is no exception.
But I do believe that once you fire up the 454 and nail it youll be happy with what you got.
I think the bid of 35 is more than generious.
that isnt a barret jackson grade car at this point .
make sure to look up the stuff in the camaro white book i lent ya.
thats the camaro bible!

[DavidS]

Oh, I bet you have a good idea. I think it goes something like this: Everything checks out as legit. The 'seller' is too attached and doesn't want to sell. You assure him that this car will be given proper attention and you're not some chump that is going to destroy the car. A few back-and-forths on price, and you end up hauling it home. At least that's how I hope it goes.

The car seems way too nice to pass up. No harm tucking it away for a little while until you finish the big block car.

I should call him in a week or so and see what he's thinking. It sounds like he's a very indecisive type. It would be real cool to see it go the way you described.


OR driving the car while the big block car is getting finished.....

The guy is using it now as a weekend driver to take his girlfriend out to dinner and to get groceries. It is not garaged and he said that is one of the reasons he is thinking of selling it. So it could be taken care of better.


if I had funds I would buy and sell the 68.
but every car needs work and that one is no exception.
But I do believe that once you fire up the 454 and nail it youll be happy with what you got.
I think the bid of 35 is more than generious.
that isnt a barret jackson grade car at this point .
make sure to look up the stuff in the camaro white book i lent ya.
thats the camaro bible!

The 68 stays. It's the car I am planning on using for my casket...LOL. The 427 will be real nice as soon as the car is out of body and paint jail. I think you are right on the 35 price. If it gets fully restored there are some items that need to be replaced like smog, master cylinder, and I'm sure there is a bunch of other stuff. Thanks for the white book idea. So far I have been going mostly by Jerry Macneish's book "The Definitive 1969 Z/28-SS 296 Fact Book".

[DavidS]

Oh, I bet you have a good idea. I think it goes something like this: Everything checks out as legit. The 'seller' is too attached and doesn't want to sell. You assure him that this car will be given proper attention and you're not some chump that is going to destroy the car. A few back-and-forths on price, and you end up hauling it home. At least that's how I hope it goes.

The car seems way too nice to pass up. No harm tucking it away for a little while until you finish the big block car.

A few weeks ago, the owner told my father-in-law he wanted 47 in cash. That seemed nuts. Way overboard on price and I would have to be insane to be flying around with a briefcase filled with cash. That made it real easy to just say forget it to the Z28.

But.......he called my father-in-law today and told him he might be OK with the 35 and that the tenants he has were using the car to hang their laundry on it, on top of the car cover. He asked if I could call him tomorrow. He sounds like he is going back and forth depending on his mood.

[DAWG]

wow offer 20 !
or else walk away!
(ill bet ya it isnt a real Z ) and looks like its gonna need a ton of work.
remember your 69 David????
that look a heck of a lot better than that.
besides if he is letting tenant hang clothes off it then he isnt taking proper steps to ensure its safety etc?
I say 20 gs or walk

[Formula413]

Yeah if there's any question about condition, run the other way. You know that better than anyone of course.

[DavidS]

wow offer 20 !
or else walk away!
(ill bet ya it isnt a real Z ) and looks like its gonna need a ton of work.
remember your 69 David????
that look a heck of a lot better than that.
besides if he is letting tenant hang clothes off it then he isnt taking proper steps to ensure its safety etc?
I say 20 gs or walk

Everything looks legit so far. It definitely sounds like he is not taking the proper care of it.

[DavidS]

Yeah if there's any question about condition, run the other way. You know that better than anyone of course.

Very True!!!! The body condition is a huge factor. Anything other than minor surface rust and I'm going to start running.

[DAWG]

buy a spot rot indicator (finds bondo areas)
I used to have one but cant find it?

[DavidS]

buy a spot rot indicator (finds bondo areas)
I used to have one but cant find it?

Dawg, is it like this one?

http://www.eastwood.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/250x160/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p605.jpg

http://www.eastwood.com/pro-gauge-ii-powder-and-paint-thickness-gauge.html

"If the magnet don't stick, run away quick!"

[DAWG]

yes same thing!
spot rot got bought out by some other company.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

i use a magnet like for a fridge. if it dont stick its filler.

[DavidS]

i use a magnet like for a fridge. if it dont stick its filler.

I bought the gage Dawg recommended from Eastwood, but I'll bring a small magnet too. That is, if the guy ever calls me back. I left two messages.

I really don't think he has made up his mind yet. He did not even have the car for sale but my father-in-law kept asking him over and over if he ever thought about selling it. He told my father-in-law more that once that "he has good days and bad days" which probably means good days is when he uses it to bring his girlfriend to a nice restaurant and bad days is when he catches his tenants using it as a spot to dry their laundry.

[DAWG]

best bet is to show him the money! (your best offer)
ill bet he will take it.
thats how I bought my car for the price i wanted years ago.
placed a wad of 100s infront of the guy .
in defense of the owner there is so many bullshitters out there wanting to buy but dont have the cash and are just wasting everyones time.
take a good flashlight and inspection mirror with you.
by now you should know the rust prone areas of a first gen camaro.
a couple bad areas often overlooked is :
rear window lower edge under molding.
bottom edge of front window all along the upper dash.
take a note pad and document the rust areas or bondo.
then negotiate a price from there .

[DavidS]

Going to Florida next Wed. If it works out, I might sell the 68 next year unless I can find out a way to store it at my house.

[DAWG]

Going to Florida next Wed. If it works out, I might sell the 68 next year unless I can find out a way to store it at my house.
put it on the lift??
park you DD underneath?
I park my cars like that for years.

[DavidS]

put it on the lift??
park you DD underneath?
I park my cars like that for years.

Won't work....

1 camaro on the lift + 1 camaro under the lift + 1 wife's DD = 1 camaro outside

friggin property is too small to put a big shed on it and I really don't want to put one in a storage unit.

The only good news is that at the rate the restoration shop is going, I have about a year to figure out what to do with the 68.

[DAWG]

carport????

[jeff68]

Won't work....

1 camaro on the lift + 1 camaro under the lift + 1 wife's DD = 1 camaro outside

How about another lift? Any room to put a car on dollies and park it crossways? Add on to the garage? Enclosed car trailer ? (I almost went this route, but just ordered a storage building from Kloter Farms instead)?

The other option is to have the wife's DD outside - but I'm sure you already know the downsides of this. I owned 4 cars before I got married and had already established parking priority. I was lucky that the house I bought before getting married had a 36x36 garage. With that said, my wife's car is in the garage while my old Dodge pickup sits outside.:)

[DavidS]

How about another lift? Any room to put a car on dollies and park it crossways? Add on to the garage? Enclosed car trailer ? (I almost went this route, but just ordered a storage building from Kloter Farms instead)?

The other option is to have the wife's DD outside - but I'm sure you already know the downsides of this. I owned 4 cars before I got married and had already established parking priority. I was lucky that the house I bought before getting married had a 36x36 garage. With that said, my wife's car is in the garage while my old Dodge pickup sits outside.:)


The wife's car has to be inside unless I'm looking for a divorce....HA. She is not the greatest parker and has hit the side of the garage backing out before so I can't put her under a lift. That would be a disaster. Plus, she has been real cool about me getting a 3rd Camaro so I would feel like an ass having her park outside or under a lift.

I like the storage building idea and have thought about this one a lot but I would probably need to have my property surveyed and then apply to the town for a variance. How big is your storage building?

[DAWG]

a co worker of mine put a put a kloter single car garage on his property without any permits or surveying.
had electric installed and has a wood floor.
good for storage.
call any shed people they got the answer you seek.
I could possibly give ya temp storage over the winter?
ill run it by the boss lol.

[DavidS]

a co worker of mine put a put a kloter single car garage on his property without any permits or surveying.
had electric installed and has a wood floor.
good for storage.
call any shed people they got the answer you seek.
I could possibly give ya temp storage over the winter?
ill run it by the boss lol.

An outdoor garage would be great, but I don't know how far I could push it. I think I would need a 20' by 10' which is pretty big.

One option would be to order it and have it put in place, but the downside would be the possibility of the town telling me to take it back out.

I thought you were pretty packed for space. I don't want your wife coming after me LOL.

[DAWG]

I benn looking into a shed myself for storage of the tractor and firewood etc.
then ill have 2 open garages.
1 for sure!

[DemonWithin99]

http://www.kingcanopy.com/content/garage-canopies.asp
^should solve a problem if you park it in front of the door the lift is on then all will be fine. esp for the winter.

or you can do this
garage for those with little space (http://weinterrupt.com/2009/03/pop-up-garage-stows-your-car-safely-underground/) <link

[jeff68]

How big is your storage building?

I just ordered a 10' x 20' from Kloter. They can put a garage door on it, but it a slightly smaller than normal door and measures 8.5' x 6.5'. Kloter doesn't do the permit - you will need to - but they give you the info you need. Here in EG, as long as the shed doesn't exceed 200 square feet, you can put it fairly close to your house and property line. Something like 10' from the house and 6' from a property line. I just completed the permit today and the shed should be here at the beginning of August.

Just make sure that you actually get a copy of your town's building regulations and know the requirements for sheds. You may also need approval from the Farmington Valley Health District. They seem to be most interested in where the shed is relative to a well or septic system.

[DavidS]

http://www.kingcanopy.com/content/garage-canopies.asp
^should solve a problem if you park it in front of the door the lift is on then all will be fine. esp for the winter.

or you can do this
garage for those with little space (http://weinterrupt.com/2009/03/pop-up-garage-stows-your-car-safely-underground/) <link

For the canopy, I would still get worried about moisture and rust eating the car from the bottom up. Also, I can't park it in front of the garage lift area since that is the spot my wife backs into when she is backing out her car.

The Cardok is awesome, but real pricey. My favorite comment is: "when your final moments come, you can get in your favorite car and 'bury' yourself and save on funeral expenses!!!"

[DavidS]

I just ordered a 10' x 20' from Kloter. They can put a garage door on it, but it a slightly smaller than normal door and measures 8.5' x 6.5'. Kloter doesn't do the permit - you will need to - but they give you the info you need. Here in EG, as long as the shed doesn't exceed 200 square feet, you can put it fairly close to your house and property line. Something like 10' from the house and 6' from a property line. I just completed the permit today and the shed should be here at the beginning of August.

Just make sure that you actually get a copy of your town's building regulations and know the requirements for sheds. You may also need approval from the Farmington Valley Health District. They seem to be most interested in where the shed is relative to a well or septic system.

How much was the 10'x20'?

The next step for me would be to go talk to the town "Building Official / Zoning Enforcement".

[jeff68]

How much was the 10'x20'?

Well, I didn't want to get just any old shed. I got the Garden Series Cape with the 8' wide insulated Heritage overhead door w/windows, 8' wide ramp, double aluminum transom windows on each side, heavy duty floor, and a single side door. I also got the site prep package. Everything came to $6k. You can save yourself a lot of money by not getting the overhead door option, prepping your own sire, or getting a more basic building. I think they have a fairly basic 10x20 shed for about $3500.

[DavidS]

Well, I didn't want to get just any old shed. I got the Garden Series Cape with the 8' wide insulated Heritage overhead door w/windows, 8' wide ramp, double aluminum transom windows on each side, heavy duty floor, and a single side door. I also got the site prep package. Everything came to $6k. You can save yourself a lot of money by not getting the overhead door option, prepping your own sire, or getting a more basic building. I think they have a fairly basic 10x20 shed for about $3500.

It sounds real nice and the price is about what I would expect. If it's going in soon, it would cool to see some pictures.

I'll be in Florida tomorrow and hopefully everything looks good.

[DAWG]

im curious David?
how the trip go??

[DavidS]

im curious David?
how the trip go??

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-08_10-13-48_942.jpg

[Grovlet]

So on to figuring out where to park it:ls1queenbitch:

Have you told the wife she gets to park outside yet?:haha::69:

Congrats:party:

[Formula413]

im curious David?
how the trip go??

I guess that answers that question!

[ZFreie]

Holy cow! shes a beaut!

[DAWG]

nice!
I hope ya got it for a good price?CYA sunday morning!!!!!

[DavidS]

nice!
I hope ya got it for a good price?CYA sunday morning!!!!!

Price was as expected. No discounts or anything but the numbers match and he had the car since 1974 when he got out of the military.

Body is solid with only surface rust.

I'm still at the airport in FL with the droid and won't be home until sometime after midnight. See you Sunday.

[DAWG]

cool I expect to see plenty of pics!!!!

[My84Z]

Can i have one?

[DavidS]

Thanks for the feedback!!!

I ended up getting in around 2:30 AM and I feel wiped.

I have a few more pics. Here is a pic of the former owner on his last drive.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-08_10-22-49_258.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-08_10-30-28_778.jpg

[DAWG]

what did transport run ya???

[DavidS]

what did transport run ya???

$1300

[DAWG]

first thing that gotta go is that ugly painted front bumper.
btw Congrats on the new addition to the family!!!!

[DavidS]

first thing that gotta go is that ugly painted front bumper.
btw Congrats on the new addition to the family!!!!

Thanks! But the original Endura bumper has to stay!

[jeff68]

See, I told you that you would end up with it.
Good thing the weather is nice enough for your wife to park outside and not be too upset - well, until the first time it is pouring rain.

A rust free body will be a nice starting point. At least wait until my car is done before you drop it off for Mike & his crew to have at it.

[DavidS]

See, I told you that you would end up with it.
Good thing the weather is nice enough for your wife to park outside and not be too upset - well, until the first time it is pouring rain.

A rust free body will be a nice starting point. At least wait until my car is done before you drop it off for Mike & his crew to have at it.

You hit that one exactly right!!! It'll get parked on the lift for now so I can still drive the 68 and Kerrie's car can also be parked inside.

I still have to figure out a master plan. Step 1 will probably be to have it certified by Jerry M.

I would like to keep the exterior in "survivor" condition with the original paint. It is not exactly pretty, but I like it the way it is.

I definitely have to do something with the surface rust on the entire undercarriage and I would like to have the engine rebuilt/restored.

[frankzlt1]

Congrats on your new addition dave. Im surprised it didn't have a cowl hood.

[DavidS]

Congrats on your new addition dave. Im surprised it didn't have a cowl hood.

Thanks! It looks like only 10% probably came from the factory with a cowl hood.

According to CRG:
------------------------------------------------------
Cowl hood (ZL2): The cowl hood was an option on SS and Z28 models in 1969 and was included on all COPO's and Pace Cars. It was introduced midyear 69. #1 ZL1, built 12E at Norwood is one of the first Camaros to have a factory ZL2 hood. A late December LOS-built Z28 with ZL2 has also been documented.

The ZL2 option included a solenoid and flapper in the hood. The wiring for the solenoid was routed through a special hole in firewall above the fuseblock. Only 10,026 cars received cowl hoods in 69 and about half of those went to COPO's and Pace Cars, meaning there were only 5,000 Z28's and SS's (out of about 20,000 Z28's and 30,000 non-Pacer SS's) that received the cowl hood.

------------------------------------------------------
Loads of people were putting them on after though because they look great.

[*LS1* Queen]

nice! congrats! thats a sweet car

[frankzlt1]

Thanks! It looks like only 10% probably came from the factory with a cowl hood.

According to CRG:
------------------------------------------------------
Cowl hood (ZL2): The cowl hood was an option on SS and Z28 models in 1969 and was included on all COPO's and Pace Cars. It was introduced midyear 69. #1 ZL1, built 12E at Norwood is one of the first Camaros to have a factory ZL2 hood. A late December LOS-built Z28 with ZL2 has also been documented.

The ZL2 option included a solenoid and flapper in the hood. The wiring for the solenoid was routed through a special hole in firewall above the fuseblock. Only 10,026 cars received cowl hoods in 69 and about half of those went to COPO's and Pace Cars, meaning there were only 5,000 Z28's and SS's (out of about 20,000 Z28's and 30,000 non-Pacer SS's) that received the cowl hood.

------------------------------------------------------
Loads of people were putting them on after though because they look great.

Do you know how many were produced with 302s. I like that its a survivor car. The color of the car is different.

[DavidS]

nice! congrats! thats a sweet car

Thanks Maddie! I really like that it still has it's original paint.

Jack had some original pics of the car and a couple pics of when he bought it in 1974. It had Cragars on it when he bought it but the tires were too large and were rubbing all the time so he put GM rally wheels back on it. The code on the wheels were the only thing that I found that did not match an original 69 Z/28.

Jack was protective with the pics and he did not want me to take them. I took cell phone pics of them though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-07_09-03-18_742.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-07_09-03-54_967.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-07_09-03-42_254.jpg

[DavidS]

Do you know how many were produced with 302s. I like that its a survivor car. The color of the car is different.

All 69 Z/28's had the 302 so at least 20,000.

[frankzlt1]

All 69 Z/28's had the 302 so at least 20,000.

No kidding, I always thought it was special order because the 350 I thought came out in 69.

[DavidS]

No kidding, I always thought it was special order because the 350 I thought came out in 69.

from wikipedia (probably not the worlds greatest camaro info source):

"The Z/28 option code was introduced in December 1966 for the 1967 model year. It was the brainchild of Vince Piggins, who conceived offering "virtually race-ready" Camaros for sale from any Chevrolet dealer.[1] This option package was not mentioned in any sales literature, so it was unknown to most buyers.[2] The Z/28 option required power front disc brakes and a Muncie 4-speed manual transmission. It featured a 302 cu in (4.9 L) small-block V-8 engine."

"The engine was designed specifically to race in the Trans Am series (which required engines smaller than 305 cu in (5.0 L) and public availability of the car. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Camaro_(first_generation)

....and I'm glad you like the colors. When I first saw it, the paint looks to be in real rough shape and I thought I would repaint it. But most likely I will try to do a touch up in the spots where the paint has come off.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

ove the car and the colors! Keep it ALL original if you can!!!! Good Luck with her and the wife.......

[DavidS]

ove the car and the colors! Keep it ALL original if you can!!!! Good Luck with her and the wife.......

Thanks!!! The wife seems to be taking it A-OK as long as we either get a bigger house or get the kitchen remodeled. I'll have to figure this one out pretty soon.

-----------------------------
not really related, and maybe posted before, but this made me laugh:
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=187542&stc=1&d=1290837983

[jeff68]

I'll have to figure this one out pretty soon.

Don't worry about it. I'm sure she'll figure it out for you!

[DavidS]

Don't worry about it. I'm sure she'll figure it out for you!

HA! She probably already did and just didn't tell me yet.

Is your new shed in yet? Are you having an outbuilding warming party when it comes in? If you do, I would really like to check it out.

edit.....Just noticed in your previous post you said end of August. I went to town hall today and it looks like as long as it doesn't have a foundation and is not bigger than 200 square feet, it just has to be 10 feet from all property lines. Time to visit Kloter Farms.

[jeff68]

Are you having an outbuilding warming party when it comes in? If you do, I would really like to check it out.

Delivery is scheduled for the first week of August. No party planned - but you're more than welcome to stop by and check it out. We can bust open a few cold ones and call it a shedwarming.

[DAWG]

Delivery is scheduled for the first week of August. No party planned - but you're more than welcome to stop by and check it out. We can bust open a few cold ones and call it a shedwarming.

OKAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Ill bring the bourbon!!!!

[DavidS]

Delivery is scheduled for the first week of August. No party planned - but you're more than welcome to stop by and check it out. We can bust open a few cold ones and call it a shedwarming.

Sounds great! I'll bring the Sam Adams.

[jeff68]

OKAY!!!!!!!!!!!
Ill bring the bourbon!!!!

Sounds great, but I'm not sure my neighbors are ready for the street to be re-paved in rubber!

[bottledbird68]

Looks good and congrats!

Never even realized the first gens could be ordered with an endura bumper. Learn something new every day :)

[DavidS]

Sounds great, but I'm not sure my neighbors are ready for the street to be re-paved in rubber!

Not by me, but Dawg layed me down in smoke at McDonald's in Torrington once and I'll never forget it.

[DavidS]

Looks good and congrats!

Never even realized the first gens could be ordered with an endura bumper. Learn something new every day :)

Thanks!!!

I don't know how many had the endura bumper but I think it was common in 69. Will check more tomorrow.

[DavidS]

found this info:

The VE3 Special Front Bumper was available as an option on any Camaro model.

Chevy never marketed it as the Endura bumper as Pontiac did.

cv3zwhy6h7k

[DAWG]

Not by me, but Dawg layed me down in smoke at McDonald's in Torrington once and I'll never forget it.

yeah i like the smell of burning rubber "anytime" lol

[bottledbird68]

Thanks!!!

I don't know how many had the endura bumper but I think it was common in 69. Will check more tomorrow.

Interesting. You never see them

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Yeah I agree the front bumper makes it stand out and its different. I've never seen one in person. Great purchase. Now give me the 68 or else!

[Grovlet]

Yeah I agree the front bumper makes it stand out and its different. I've never seen one in person. Great purchase. Now give me the 68 or else!

or else what??

You'll turn into a pussy cat:badgirl:, you'll run around like a little girl with a spider on your head:giggle:, you'll trade in your slow junk in for a 1990s Chrysler Mini Van:drunk3:

Come on curious minds wanna know:p

NaNanananaNanana:uralosersmiley:

[DavidS]

Yeah I agree the front bumper makes it stand out and its different. I've never seen one in person. Great purchase. Now give me the 68 or else!

HA! I am hoping to get my wife more into driving it, but right now it makes her nervous driving it.

The 69 just left Florida today as they had to get a couple of cars to make the trip. Hopefully it will be here Friday.

I also found this info on the VE3:

"12,650 1969 Camaros were ordered with the RPO VE3 Endura bumper. It wasn't tied to any specific package, it was available as a separate option. Considering there were 243,085 regular production 69's built, the number of Camaros with Endura bumpers comes to about 5% of the total."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There were about 20,000 1969 Z/28s made so at 5% there would probably be about 1,000 1969 Z/28 Camaros made with an Endura bumper.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

DAMN! 5%!!! and how many of that are left???

[DavidS]

DAMN! 5%!!! and how many of that are left???

There is no way to exactly know between rusted, totaled out cars, resto-mods, etc. but I have seen guesstimates between 30% to 40%. If this is correct and the previous numbers are close to being correct, there would be between 300 to 400 1969 Z/28 Camaros with an Endura bumper left. I would actually guess that for a true survivor Z/28 there would be about 100.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Id be happy with that!

[My84Z]

I think all that car needs is hideaway headlights and it would be perfect:)

[My84Z]

So what one can i have?

[DavidS]

I think all that car needs is hideaway headlights and it would be perfect:)

Hideaway headlights look real cool and in 69 you could get the RS-Z/28 model so it would have them, but I want to keep this car as it was bought.

The only exception is I am going to leave the smog off. Jack did not have any of the smog stuff (pump, manifolds, etc). I am just going to leave it with headers.

[DavidS]

So what one can i have?

None. I took Jeff's Kloter Farms recommendation and ordered a garage yesterday so I can keep them all.

[DAWG]

err trade for a 69 corvette???????? lol
im gonna sell it anyhow cuz ol lady is too short to drive it lol.
otherwise it is made for a woman.

[DAWG]

err trade for a 69 corvette???????? lol
im gonna sell it anyhow cuz ol lady is too short to drive it lol.
otherwise it is made for a woman.
dangle carrot in front of you.
http://webpages.charter.net/harrycoon/my%2069%20vette.JPG
and its a trophy winner!!!!
http://webpages.charter.net/harrycoon/Picture%20017%20(Small).jpg

[DavidS]

err trade for a 69 corvette???????? lol
im gonna sell it anyhow cuz ol lady is too short to drive it lol.
otherwise it is made for a woman.
dangle carrot in front of you.


Thats a beautiful car Dawg!!! But, I have a Camaro addiction and not a Corvette one.

I'm sure you could sell it no problem but sales of just about everything seem to be slow right now.

[DAWG]

is your wife a camaro addict lol????

[DavidS]

is your wife a camaro addict lol????

For the most part she could care less about cars. Her favorite car though is the 2nd gen Firebird Trans Am.

The 69 Z is going to be delivered tomorrow.

[DAWG]

cool

[DavidS]

Car came in today.......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-15_12-01-57_952.jpg

....and now my driveway looks great!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-07-15_12-16-16_695.jpg

[monytorris]

I have a 67 i've been thinking about selling!!:)

[DavidS]

I have a 67 i've been thinking about selling!!:)

Don't show me any pics!!!! My wife hasn't recuperated yet from the 69Z. She is out at the kitchen remodeling place right now....she is probably mumbling something like "payback is a bi$@#".

[monytorris]

Don't show me any pics!!!! My wife hasn't recuperated yet from the 69Z. She is out at the kitchen remodeling place right now....she is probably mumbling something like "payback is a bi$@#".



HAHAHAHA!!!! Well mine is a hell of a lot cheaper than the one you just bought! One more and you have every year first gen! Btw very nice cars!

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Kick Ass!!! Hows She Drive!!!

[DavidS]

Kick Ass!!! Hows She Drive!!!

She drives terrible, but I knew that when I bought it. In the 37 years Jack had it, I don't think he ever really took care of anything other than the bare minimum. It stalls out all the time, the engine has surface rust everywhere and the brakes are shot. The original distributor, brake booster, master cylinder, and carb were taken off and replaced with non-original parts. He kept the original parts, but they need to be restored.

[ZFreie]

She drives terrible, but I knew that when I bought it. LOL I guess after all this time the car is allowed to slack off a bit right?

[DAWG]

NICE!!!!
I see one spot on the 68 where the black stripe is that is really reflective lol????

[DavidS]

LOL I guess after all this time the car is allowed to slack off a bit right?

Not for too long though. First step is I would like to get it checked over by Jerry Macneish before I start taking things apart though.

NICE!!!!
I see one spot on the 68 where the black stripe is that is really reflective lol????

HA!!! You found the only clean spot on the entire car.

[DAWG]

last nite at the canaan fireworks carshow a green Z/28 just like yours pulled in but it didnt have an endura bumper.
no cowl hood or rear spoiler either?

[DAWG]

HA!!! You found the only clean spot on the entire car.
lol isnt that the spot we worked on lol????

[DavidS]

lol isnt that the spot we worked on lol????

HA....Yep, the only decent spot on the car!

I spent a good part of the day today taking pics of numbers. Everything is looking A-OK so far. I called Jerry MacNeish earlier this week. He had an answering machine message saying he was recuperating from an operation or something.

I have started documenting everything with pictures in the same order his book has it. I'm not sure if this info is too boring to post.

Dawg....You used the quote that "a car is only original once" but this car in it's neglected and surface rust condition is pretty friggin original with two exceptions (so far, but there will probably be more as I check it further).

1 = smog removed and headers put in
2 = in 1974 Jack replaced the Cragars with GM rally wheels and the codes don't match 2nd week of January, 69 Z/28 wheels.

[frankzlt1]

I love lookin into the history of cars especially older mussel cars. I always seem to find interesting facts about different options that you never herd of. Good luck with it dave

[DAWG]

I hope ya got it registered and insured so i can see it!!!!

[DavidS]

I hope ya got it registered and insured so i can see it!!!!

Not yet. You are welcome to come over and check it out though.

[jeff68]

David-
My 10 x 20 shed arrived today. I'm very impressed with the quality. The site prep was done last week. The guy asked if I was going to put a car in it and I said No. He said you need to make sure that the ramp isn't too steep for a car. Didn't hink much of it until today - the ramp is too steep to get my old Wheel Horse 520H in it with the mower deck on. The deck gets caught up on the ramp/shed interface. I had to make a 24" long transition for between the ramp & shed (not shown in the pics). Anyhow, if you have any slope at all to your site, make sure to either get a longer ramp or have the guy prep the sire accordingly.

Here it is:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/ShedAug2011006.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/ShedAug2011004.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/ShedAug2011005.jpg

[DavidS]

That looks great! It looks like a small barn near the house.

My site is fairly flat. They came out and they did the prep work yesterday even though the shed/garage is not due in until the 18th. The prep guys didn't ask about a car going in it.

I'll post up pics when it comes in and hopefully it looks as good as yours!

[jeff68]

That looks great! It looks like a small barn near the house.
Thanks. That's the look we were going for, and several people have made the same comment. So, mission accomplished. Can't wait to see what your shed looks like.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

were did you go to buy it? quality looks great from the outside how about the inside? like will it take a hurricane?

[Formula413]

That really does look good. +1 on pics of the inside. Any overhead storage?

[jeff68]

The shed is from Kloter Farms in Ellington, CT. They are built down in PA (Amish country I suppose). Interior quality is excellent. Not one questionable quality stud or poor nailing job. I installed a 4' x 8' 'loft', but space is limited due to the relatively shallow pitch of the roof. Plenty of room otherwise. It will be neat to see David's Camaro in one of these sheds!

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/ShedAug2011007.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/ShedAug2011008.jpg

[DavidS]

Jeff,

Today was a spastic day. A couple issues with me encroaching on the neighbors property line with all my tree cutting. Did a bunch of raking, shoveling, pulling up roots, seeding, and covering things up while getting soaked. Then the shed came in and then Jerry Macneish came.

The good: Legit Z28, original drivetrain...engine, trans, etc.

The bad: bunch of little crap that has been changed over the last 42 years....f'd up wiring, harmonic balancer, one section on the underside that got dented, etc. etc. Jerry will send a full report in about a week.

The ugly: He said it should have a frame-off restoration, due to repainting in a bunch of sections and all the surface rust. He does restoration work on parts (he does not do body work/car restoration) and I had him take the brake booster, master cylinder and distributor with him. These items have incorrect replacements but Jack gave me the originals that had huge amounts of rust on them.

Boomer, If you are still looking for a 69 Z carb, I can PM you some info on matching the correct dates and what the jets and power valves should be.

The carb that is on the car now is a Holley Street Avenger and is nowhere near correct, but I found someone selling a date correct carb restored by Eric Jackson of Vintage Musclecar Parts so I bought his carb.

.....the next step is figuring out the restoration plan.

Also, I will get pics of the shed/garage up soon.

[DAWG]

geez david ya just cant get a break can ya?????
I feel for ya buddy!
in the end youll be happy as a pig in shit through!

[DavidS]

geez david ya just cant get a break can ya?????
I feel for ya buddy!
in the end youll be happy as a pig in shit through!

It's actually not too bad Dawg. It is in driver condition and Jerry is talking about making it a show car.

The surface rust has to be taken care of though.

...and I have to keep finding the correct small parts like the balancer.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

i say take care of the little stuff and keep it a date correct numbers matched Survivor!!! Thas my 2 cents. and then in 10 years sen her in for a nut and bolt.

[DavidS]

i say take care of the little stuff and keep it a date correct numbers matched Survivor!!! Thas my 2 cents. and then in 10 years sen her in for a nut and bolt.

yep. I'm going to try to take it slow and just collect missing parts for now.....

A lot of the small stuff are normal wear items. He said that GM still makes some of the items I need.

My list of the big stuff: battery and battery cables, carburetor, fuel pump, fuel lines, shifter handle, rocker arms, exhaust system, harmonic balancer, shocks, water pump, wiring harness

Even though all 69 Z's had smog, I am going to leave it with headers but pick up new ones. He said it looks like inexpensive hookers are on there now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/left-side-engine2.jpg

[DAWG]

stainless headers would look nice!!!

[DavidS]

stainless headers would look nice!!!

yep. I think you're right and that's what I'll probably go with. It's gotta be a lot easier to install on a small block too.

and 1 funny thing that is the easiest to fix.......... he said the valve covers are switched.

[DAWG]

Saw this and thought i would pass it on to ya
http://nwct.craigslist.org/pts/2502386890.html
I might have the correct harmonic balancer for a 69 302 if i didnt chuck it out years ago.
ill look for ya and if i still have it its yours for free.

[My84Z]

I say just give it to me and i will take care of it for ya!

[DavidS]

I might have the correct harmonic balancer for a 69 302 if i didnt chuck it out years ago.
ill look for ya and if i still have it its yours for free.

If you have one, it would look like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/balancer1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/balancer2.jpg

They are real hard to find though and restored mint condition ones sell for about $400.

[DAWG]

yeah thats the one.
Ill look for it in my loft in the garage.
I hope I still got it for ya.
if memory serves me right that same balancer was used on other engines aswell with same stamp.
I found an original unused in original box here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/69-72-307-262-302-CAMARO-Z28-HARMONIC-BALANCER-V8-1969-/370463469735

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

for 50 bux id be ALLL over that!!!!

[DavidS]

I found an original unused in original box here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/69-72-307-262-302-CAMARO-Z28-HARMONIC-BALANCER-V8-1969-/370463469735


Dawg, Thanks for trying, but the EBay one is not an original. The auction has "Not the correct style. Item is new aftermarket".

[jeff68]

He does restoration work on parts (he does not do body work/car restoration) and I had him take the brake booster, master cylinder and distributor with him.

Just a 'heads-up': Make sure that you know EXACTLY what he will be doing to these components and EXACTLY what you will get back. A lot of people into Camaros think Jerry is "the man". I'm not one of them, and I'm talking from personal experience:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7176.0;all

[DavidS]

Just a 'heads-up': Make sure that you know EXACTLY what he will be doing to these components and EXACTLY what you will get back. A lot of people into Camaros think Jerry is "the man". I'm not one of them, and I'm talking from personal experience:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=7176.0;all

Wow!!!! That was you! Holy Moly!!!! I had read that entire thread and had even printed it out to go through it thorougly and I had no idea that was your carb. Jeez I should have looked closer at the original poster name. It made me really wonder what was going on at his shop.

The parts that I gave him though were really in pathetic shape. The booster sounded like it had a lot of sand in it from deterioration and everything looked like it just came out of a dumpster.

[jeff68]

^^Yeah, that was me.

For restoring the finish on bits & pieces, check out Steve Gregori's work at www.brakeboosters.com. I just got back some hardware from him and it came out very nice.

[DavidS]

^^Yeah, that was me.

For restoring the finish on bits & pieces, check out Steve Gregori's work at www.brakeboosters.com. I just got back some hardware from him and it came out very nice.

Very nice!!! He does beautiful work.

....Alfred just emailed me another 1969 picture of him and the car. This picture is not as faded as the other ones and it's before he put the fog lights on.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/ScottAFB.jpg

He also said he is sending me one original picture. This one (with fog lights):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/Z28-01.jpg

[Formula413]

I wonder what the combined value of every car in that parking lot is right now.

[jeff68]

Looking at vintage pictures like that never gets old. You start to pick up on other things - like the 5-spoke wheel/ Polyglas tire combo on the car next to him. Great stuff.

[DavidS]

I wonder what the combined value of every car in that parking lot is right now.

Don't know what they're worth, but it looks a bit like a modern day car show. Funny to think that they are all daily drivers.

Looking at vintage pictures like that never gets old. You start to pick up on other things - like the 5-spoke wheel/ Polyglas tire combo on the car next to him. Great stuff.

.....and not a foreign car in sight. Radically different times.

[monytorris]

.



.....and not a foreign car in sight. Radically different times.

I had a dream like that once!

[DavidS]

The shed has been working out great so far. Next year I will probably insulate it.

The entrance is 6 inches wider than between the lift, so it's easier than parking under the lift.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/outside2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/outside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/inside.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Very Nice!!!!