Flex Fuel Conversion

[Batman]

Yeah yeah I know it isn't readily available around here yet but it is filtering in so I have decided to do a full blown research project on this to see what the cost/benefit really is with E-85. Found a few places that offer plug and play controllers to convert any post 1985 car or truck to flex fuel capability and I've got a couple ideas on how to make it closer to the same efficiency as gasoline and if I am right I think with a couple minor tweeks I can make it work pretty well. Ideally I want this for the Trans Am because 105 Octane is very appealing at $2.09 a gallon. However I am not willing to risk the engine on it without some R&D so now that I have the grand prix it is going to be the test vehicle. So expect a write up on it sometime soon as I have already started the data collecting on 87 octane gas. My plan is to do 1000 miles on 87, then get the E-85 controller and do 1000 miles, then add the tweeks I have planned and go another 1000 miles and see how it all plays out. I'll keep track of costs while I go and see if E-85 is really worth it or just a pipe dream.

[Slowhawk]

So,your demodding your car for emissions and drive better.Then now you want to convert to E-85 which works better for higher hp cars?

Sometimes you lose me. LOL

[84ta406]

My next motor is going to be E85, shit is making really good power on high compression and boosted cars. Biggest thing to watch out for is, is your fuel lines compatible some will deteriorate with e85 also E85 is consumed quicker like running alky, so you need a fuel system that can flow 30% more volume over gasoline.

I've got a bunch more info if you want feel free to ask.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

yeah thats what i gather as well. its a thinner fuel wich means youd have to have a high volume pump to supply the engine adequatly. i know my Flex Fuel S10 has a 255 intank pump. a special regulator system as well as added fuel pressure gauges and Charcoal canister to name a few changes to the vehicle. also an EGR valve if equiped can fuck with the air fuel mix too if aloud to run on a converted vehicle. just Some of the shit i know from researching the S10 a little bit and why the flex fuel trucks fuel and engine management systems are so different from the gas only trucks. good luck i hope it works out!!! and dont you need extra upper cylinder lubrication with E85? controlled oil leak or sumthing, i know the S10 doesnt have a PCV on the flex fuel trucks but a controlled vaccum leak that sucks in a bit of oil along with it on purpose. just a thought?

[Formula413]

Josh is right on both points. To me the flex fuel thing never made sense, because if your building an engine to run on E85 you would want a lot of compression to take adavantage of the high octane number and to make up for the lower energy density relative to gasoline. I don't see how you could make an engine run either one without huge compromises. I'd like to know more about the engine management in flex fuel cars.

[Batman]

So,your demodding your car for emissions and drive better.Then now you want to convert to E-85 which works better for higher hp cars?

Sometimes you lose me. LOL

Why do you assume everything is about HP? That is the one thing I hate about tuners (no offense intended at all) is that everything is always about max power. If this kit works I have a list of 54 people already who will pay me to install it. I am de-modding my car because of emissions yes, but also because I am not 100% happy with it so I am trying something new. I may hate it this way and put everything else back on, who knows. I will keep tinkering until I like the final product and am frankly getting sick of hearing how stupid I am because making max HP isn't a concern for me and I am trying something new. I mean I could have put a much bigger cam in it and made 20-35 more HP as it sits but it isn't what I am looking for at this point in time so how about we cut me some slack. And if nothing else E-85 is $1.20 less a gallon here then 93 octane, and in the summer it is almost $.80 cheaper then 87 octane that is a pretty significant number. If I can toss a few bucks into a car to save a few hundred down the road I am willing to give it a try.

[Batman]

My next motor is going to be E85, shit is making really good power on high compression and boosted cars. Biggest thing to watch out for is, is your fuel lines compatible some will deteriorate with e85 also E85 is consumed quicker like running alky, so you need a fuel system that can flow 30% more volume over gasoline.

I've got a bunch more info if you want feel free to ask.

Thanks Josh, I've been studying E-85 for awhile now but I appreciate the offer and I'll hit you up if I need anything. For your car you will definitely need a fuel line upgrade. Most post 1985 cars will be OK, the newer the better.

[Formula413]

I'm defintely not too caught up in numbers either, the most important thing is that the car be fun. That's why my car has so few mods, mods would make it run better times at the track but wouldn't necessarily make the car more fun to drive.

[84ta406]

Thanks Josh, I've been studying E-85 for awhile now but I appreciate the offer and I'll hit you up if I need anything. For your car you will definitely need a fuel line upgrade. Most post 1985 cars will be OK, the newer the better.

Stainless steel lines FTW! E85 will definately let you know if your fuel system is in order, you do hafta watch out for o rings and stuff since they require special ones and some rubber lines withh eat away.

E85 is a great fuel if you're able to find it. Sure it burns 30% quicker but it also burns more efficiently and has a cooler intake charge so you can run more timing/ reduce detonation.

Heres a couple cool E85 cars:

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[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

I'm defintely not too caught up in numbers either, the most important thing is that the car be fun. That's why my car has so few mods, mods would make it run better times at the track but wouldn't necessarily make the car more fun to drive.


IM 100% with you on that one!!! my car was more fun to drive wen it was stock. i could drive it by a cop and not get harassed. drive it daily and not break the bank in fuel costs. i dunno the E85 being cheaper thing. i get it BUT how long will it take for it to pay for itself? thats the final question. if it was say an average of 25 cents less per gallon and costed 1000 bux for the kit installed. thats what 4000 gallons of fuel to pay for it?

[Slowhawk]

Why do you assume everything is about HP? That is the one thing I hate about tuners (no offense intended at all) is that everything is always about max power. If this kit works I have a list of 54 people already who will pay me to install it. I am de-modding my car because of emissions yes, but also because I am not 100% happy with it so I am trying something new. I may hate it this way and put everything else back on, who knows. I will keep tinkering until I like the final product and am frankly getting sick of hearing how stupid I am because making max HP isn't a concern for me and I am trying something new. I mean I could have put a much bigger cam in it and made 20-35 more HP as it sits but it isn't what I am looking for at this point in time so how about we cut me some slack. And if nothing else E-85 is $1.20 less a gallon here then 93 octane, and in the summer it is almost $.80 cheaper then 87 octane that is a pretty significant number. If I can toss a few bucks into a car to save a few hundred down the road I am willing to give it a try.

Don't get your panties in a bunch.You said you ran high octain to get the high dyno #'s which say's to me your all about the hp #.Then I read posts about demodding,then this about E-85.I really don't care what you do, just voicing an opinion which is what the internet is about.

As for testing the E-85.There are a ton of people running it out west.Search them and it will save you a bunch of questions and give you the result answers you are looking for.What I would think is soon the E-85 price will go up alot due to more vehicles running it.The government will tax the hell out of it.

[Batman]

IM 100% with you on that one!!! my car was more fun to drive wen it was stock. i could drive it by a cop and not get harassed. drive it daily and not break the bank in fuel costs. i dunno the E85 being cheaper thing. i get it BUT how long will it take for it to pay for itself? thats the final question. if it was say an average of 25 cents less per gallon and costed 1000 bux for the kit installed. thats what 4000 gallons of fuel to pay for it?


It's hard to say until actually get the box on the first car, I am thinking about 20,000 miles at the current prices, which for me is 1 year, considerably quicker for a car running 93 octane, maybe just over a summer for that. Only time will tell. Hell it may be a complete flop but I am confident in my planning so we'll see what happens