400CI truck engine?
 

K so here is whats going on.

A friend and i are planning on putting this engine into a second gen camaro. It wont happen for sometime because of funds but i would like to see if i can get more info on the engine. Its been at my friends shop from a while sitting on a engine stand so we are going to try and make good use of it. So what i know so far is that its been sitting for probably 15 years, its a 400 cubic inch engine, my friend says he ran the block number. There is a unknown problem with it, no one can remember exactly why it was pulled from the car. Looks to me like it was modded and raced. Here are some pictures.

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/400cu3.jpg


http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/400cu1.jpg
Block Number

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...n/400cu2-1.jpg
Number on the Head.

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/400cu7.jpg
Roller Rockers which i don't think are stock for a engine this old??

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/400cu6.jpg
Someone told me the Double hump means performance head?? Not sure if that's true or not.

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/400cu5.jpg

http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/...ion/400cu4.jpg

Any info is appreciated thanks.

Can someone move this to the SBC/BBC section? Thanks

What do you wanna know? Ive dealt with quite a few 400+ci SBC motors, even have my 406 shortblock still, with ARP studs etc.

Those heads are pretty much junk, looks like its probably got a cam in it going off the intake and rockers.

With a google search on the block, I saw it's a small block:

3951511, 1970-1980 400 ci car & Truck, 2 & 4-Bolt, 3-freeze plugs

so nothing too out of the ordinary there, but the heads look the ones on my 69 Z/28. I have to look at the pictures closer to make sure. I just looked in Jerry M's 67-68 book and the double hump heads look very different in 67 & 68. In your top picture the left hand head is kind of far away but it looks like it matches my 69.


Here is a picture of my 69 Z/28 double hump heads:

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...psf05f3c64.jpg

and my casting/date code
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/...ps346f4eca.jpg

For the date:

first letter= month where A is January, B is Feb, etc
middle numbers are 1-31 for day of the month
last number is year, where 8=1969 and 9=1969

so for my right side head, L218 = Dec 21st 1968

yours looks like, I168 = Sep 16th 1968

-----------------------------------------
The 186 casting heads could have been used on 3 different engines:

Year CI Intake Exhaust
------------------------------
1968-69 302 2.02 1.6
1968-69 327 2.02 1.6
1970-72 350 2.02 1.6

So based on the date, the heads either went on a Z/28 DZ 302 motor or a 327 (maybe a L30).

They might be worth $$$ but I'm no expert on what they might be worth. For determining value, you could either try EBay with a high reserve number or posting a question in the Team Camaro "What's it Worth" section. Those guys sometimes give a value of 1/2 what you could get on EBay though.


Roller rockers might have been out in the 1960's but as far as I know, they were not stock:
http://www.harlandsharp.com/history.htm

According to Jerry MacNeish's book "The Definitive 1969 Camaro Z/28 - SS 396 Fact Book":

1969 302 cylinder heads were resdesigned with threaded bolt holes at each end for alternator bracket installation. The combustion chamber and valve size remained identical to earlier 302 castings (2.02-inch intake valves, 1.60 -inch exhaust valves). The 1969 302 casting number is 3927186. The double hump casting marks at each end were made smaller than the '67-'68 casting. All "186" castings installed in '69 Z/28's received pressed-in rocker arm studs. Casting numbers and date codes can be found when the valve cover is removed. The SS350 is equipped with "18" cylinder head castings, however, the valves are smaller (1.94-inch intake valves, 1.50-inch exhaust valves).

Ya you got a 400 with 327 double humps, and some 1.6 roller tips rockers, cam, looks like a 7 qt pan and an old victor jr intake. Probably in optimum configuration you'll get about 350- 400 hp at the crank depending on compression, rod length, cam choice, and if there was any port work. Should have no problem getting 300 to the back tire. Hope this helps

Sam,

Do you have a way to know for sure if it's they went on a 327 and not a 302?

David

Wow thats a good read David

its the same casting number. So same head?

I think so. If he goes to sell it, he should probably advertise it as a 1969 DZ 302 Z/28 head.

Thanks for all the information! That's a big help.

Yeah i took a picture of the pan because it seemed pretty deep. 300 is a lot more than i expected. Thanks for the info man!

It's what everybody knows that head as from where I'm from. But if he wants to get technical he can., just might loose some potential buyers. Id just call them "186's" if i was selling them , Same head as the 350's and 302's. . Chevy/gm just changed the pistons to accommodate compression ratio. For example the ss 327's came with oem dometops. Now a days you'd be a fool to spend money on those vs buying some vortecs or even an aluminum set of edelbrocs that are years ahead. But if your looking for numbers matching stuff, more power to ya

I agree. Since he's not building a 69 with a 302 or 327, he would probably be better off selling the heads and buying something newer.

LSX-Nation,

If you ever decide you want to sell the entire motor, as-is, (but not for huge $$$)..... let me know.

haha ill let you know, like i said im trying to pay stuff off and move out and my friend is buying another car and setting it up for autocross so we don't really have a ton of money for it yet... But we are looking for HP, we don't really care too much about how rare the heads, ect are so if we can sell some stuff off of it and get cheaper but better performance parts we will most likely do it.

Shoulda just bought my topend! Lol

take the motor apart and especially check for cracks between the 5&7 cylinders and the 4&6 cylinders (known weak spots for the 400 blocks).
the 509 is the most desirable (high nickel casting)
There are only 3 400 block castings; 511, 509, 817. The 511 is the early one (70-72), the 509 & 817 are the later ones.

The later ones are possibly "better", which is NOT the same as saying that the 511 is "not good". Maybe, just not quite as good, for SOME things. But for a street or moderate racing application, it's not a significant difference, and I wouldn't let that bother me if I was you. For a budget hot street motor it'll be perfectly fine.

It'll almost certainly have factory 4-bolt main caps installed on it.

The later blocks had more metal around the main webbing area, so they're "stronger". People talk about "4-bolt" vs "2-bolt", but that's not really the difference; the # of bolts is incidental. It happens that the factory put 4-bolt caps on the early ones and 2-bolt caps on the later. But the REAL difference in the blocks is early vs late, not 2- vs 4-bolt. The bolts themselves aren't what makes the ones "better" than the other.

Yes the heads that came on 400s are absolute crap. If it still has the original heads, throw then in the trash, they're pretty much hopeless; and get something decent. Vortecs wouldn't be a bad choice. Other than that, you pretty much need to go to the aftermarket. Double-humps are marginal at best. If you use them, be sure that they have the accessory holes in the ends, if your car's accessories need them, as anything from 69 up will; it's nearly impossible to fake those holes. You can't just "drill" them in heads that don't have them, because there's nothing there to drill into.

It's VERY VERY easy to get 400 HP out of a 400, with the right heads. Hard to avoid getting that much in fact. A Comp XE or a Voodoo cam in the 224-230° kind of range, NOT a Summit cam, "RPM" cam, or any of the old stock cams like the 151 or other similar garbage, are the best choice with Vortecs or other stock heads, or even alot of the aftermarket ones. The large CID needs the added exhaust flow from the larger exh lobe.

Yes, virtually all 350 parts will fit a 400; the specific exceptions being the crank damper and flywheel, if you stick with the factory "external balance" stuff. Also you'll need to drill the steam holes in the heads if they don't already have them, which you can do yourself with a hand drill, no sense in paying somebody else to do that if you don't have to or it's not just a matter of convenience (like, they're already doing some other machine work, and you get them to do that at the same time).


OTOH, "fit" is not the same as "is the right thing". Remember, you're dealing with a motor that's on up into the big block cubes range, so all of the parts have to be chosen to support that kind of size. Stuff that's borderline radical in a 350, tends to be mild street stuff in a 400.(THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO FOLLOW OR ELSE YOULL BE DISSAPOINTED WITH THE RESULTS)

You'll get best results with a small chamber head (64cc) and pistons with a small dish or (ideally) a "reverse dome", to put the ACTUAL CR (calculated including the ACTUAL MEASURED deck clearance) in the high 9s if the heads are iron, or mid 10s with aluminum heads. Deck clearance is CRUCIAL: don't be fooled by the "catalog" CR listings, or just "assume" that there is no deck clearance. With most "rebuilder" type pistons including TRWs for example, the deck clearance, which is how far "down in the hole" the pistons are at TDC, can be nearly .050" in some blocks, which in turn can cause the ACTUAL CR to be a full point lower than some randomly guessed and "calculated" CR. Any CR calculator is only as accurate as the numbers you put into it.

wow thats a ton of info thanks ill be sure to go over all of this with my friend when we start. THANKS!!

So are you saying all the 400 SBC's are 4 bolt blocks, and in the 509 and 817's they just installed 2 bolt main caps in the 4bolt block? so you can put 511 mains in a 509 or 817 block?

Good info dawg! what do you think you would get out of a 400 block with camel hump heads, 350/350hp 70 LT1 cam, and 650cfm holley with dual plane? I have lots of SBC parts from my step dads years. We have a few 350's around including a 4 bolt main 350 block that I was thinking throw one together this summer and put it in some beater car for fun.

3951509 block:

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps4797b2d5.jpg

The reason a two bolt it "stronger" on a 400 is because the bolts have a better clamping load since the webbing area is thicker. The 4 bolts crack more because the metal around the bolts is thinner compared to the twos.

I wouldnt worry about the bottom end thats the least of your problems. 400s crack between the bores on the deck more than anything else. Already have a junk block from that.

Sounds like a good 300-350hp combo, great street manners and reliability.

Here is a 330817 block I have, pulled from a 72 Impala:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...k/IMG_2385.jpg

Do not go swapping main caps, if you do you WILL need machine work to correct them if they can even be trued.

yeah swapping main caps was a dumb statement, but you get what i meant. i didnt know if the later just had 2 bolt mains in 4 bolt blocks which would be pretty dumb

from the looks of it it is a 4 bolt machined area just missing the second set of holes. wish i had a before and after of my block as far as the mains are concerned. and the engine builder sed aside from the caps i bought 4 bolt mains weakens the blocks ALOT. only thing it help with is cap walk. and if you just add studs it fixes that issue and is a stronger setup then any 4 bolt Besides the Bow Tie caps i have from the SB2.2.

NICE

Had a 400sbc 2 bolt main 509 casting in my 71 Full convertible Blazer that was just a beast! Setup right these things are nasty for being an iron block with no machining done. Slap a good set of heads, yeah the double humps can be pretty desirable for somebody doing a matching numbers car. I would say pull the heads and put em up for sale and grab another set to slap on there. Depending on what you want to put it in and what you want out of it power wise then obviously go from there. A good dual plane intake with a demon will go a long way.

whats the going rate for a set of double humps I got 2 sets we actually pulled one set off the LT1 in the vette because with the domed pistons the CR was too high...

Whatever scrap is right now. I wouldnt use double humps on anything

I would guess between $200 to $400 on EBay.

dang im sitting on some cash.