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Old 11-17-2010, 12:07 AM
bottledbird68 bottledbird68 is offline
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Default Lt1 bottom end, how much can they take?

Ok, so I'm pricing different options out in my head forming this winters plan of attack on the z if I do wind up tearing it down.
My plan is to finally convert the 2 stage nos cheater kit I have for efi use and run the car on spray.
Now, I'm torn on keeping the lt1 or going ls power, but, since this is the lt1 section let's talk lt1 bottom ends.
I already looked at and priced up a fully forged 383 rotating assembly that I know would be basically bulletproof for whatever I want to throw at it. And yeah, it'd be great to run a 300 shot and go balls out but on this car I don't think I care enough to add all the shit I'd need to track an 800+ horse car.

So, thinking realistically, if for once I can actually do something with moderation (very difficult for me trust me lol) what can the stock lt1 bottom end handle? Say I stay super budget and just do rings/bearing, some good arp fasteners, and call it a day? I'd probably upgrade from my hot cam to something a little bigger but nothing too crazy since I don't think I want to buy heads, and my heads/hot cam combo already put 319 to the wheels on a poopy tune so I'm guessing what's on there flows ok. Basically, how much of a shot can the stock bottom end take and be semi reliable?

Option 2, spend some extra and get at least forged pistons along with everything in option 1. I'm assuming the stock pistons are the biggest weak point. Taking them out of the equation how much more can I add safely? Only thing really stopping me here is the cost/headache of getting it all rebalanced. At that point I may want...

Option 3, a full cast 383 rotating assbly from eagle. About half the money of the forged stuff but is it even as good as stock?

Basically, I'm assuming I'm close to 400 horse at the flywheel now. I'd like to get closer to 450 by freshening it up, going bigger on the cam, and doing some tuning. Then hit it with 75-100 horse on the first stage and then have the second stage put me between 150-200 horse total. Just trying to get some opinions on what I need to be fairly reliable strengthwise.
Already got fuel system, colder plugs, timing retard and all the other associated odds and ends sorted out. Just need to settle in on which hard parts will get me there.
I'm looking for a solid mid to high 12 second car on the motor and mid 11's on spray. I think that'll have me more than satisfied with this project.
So, lt1 guru's, discuss away.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:42 AM
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stock lt1 short block record is held by a 3100# 3rd gen bird with ported heads,comp cam 276 n2o grind and a cheater plate with 82 jet..which is either 180 or 210 shot depending on tune..record is 5.99 1/8th and 9.44 1/4 on 275s with rod bolts

So that should give you a idea and i think hes making around 450rwhp on motor..im looking to be making 600hp on motor and then spraying 210 to my stock short block an im going after the record above for kicks..but dont get me wrong my goal is to blow my shit up once i get all the shit to go turbo..lol mine and the other guys cars are race shit though..not someting i would do every day..


On that note though i know more then 1 person that used to spray 150-175 shot to there camed cars all the time.the 2nd stage is what would get you..plus with cast pistons you have to pay super close attion to the tune up


the cast 383 deal well would be no better then running the stock crank with some h beams and some cheaper style forged pistons..only thing you would do is gain the cubes..if i was you i would just do some srp pistons and h beams or get a whole forged kit..


My next step for me if i stay juice longer will be forged pistons and h beams..then swap pistons and ad a forged crank for when i am turbo.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:51 AM
bottledbird68 bottledbird68 is offline
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What's the stock crank good for?

And the stock rods are no better than the stock pistons?

I know damn well I've sprayed a 150 shot into a stock cast piston Pontiac 400 for plenty of time with no issues. But that motor also probably only made 350-375 horse off the bottle if it was lucky.

I don't mind leaning on it a bit but I don't want to build a total grenade, nor do I have any intentions of going after any records.

Just don't want to spend any more than I need to on this car to hit my goals. This is not my balls out no expense spared project. Just my budget beater to toy with while I work on the full on project. The z is the one I'll drive with extreme prejudice cause I really don't care about it lol.
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Old 11-17-2010, 02:59 AM
bottledbird68 bottledbird68 is offline
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Hell, I've seen deep 11's on heads, cam, intake with a stock short block. So, at what power level do they come apart, regardless of if they are na, or have a power adder. Assuming of course the tune is on.
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:22 AM
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Noone knows they don't run long enough to find out
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:25 AM
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i aint heard anyone breaking a stock crank..but to let you know i will be around 800 and im not thinking twice about doing it...i also had a 327 with stock crank,stock rods with rod bolts and trw pistons and it made around 750..lol im lil diff..gm stock shit can take a hell of a beating

the rods i think are the weak point but once you do rod bolts the pistons are next in line....arp rod bolt kit for stock rods is 70$..or you could go to speedway motors and pick up a set of there forged h beam rods with arp 7/16th bolts for 250$.

Then float around and toss a cheap forged piston on the rods and bolt it all up..

like i said crank is the last thing i would sweat on the rotating assembly..rod bolts first,pistons then rods then crank.shit you might have to address the caps on the block before the crank....but make sure you get your crank checked an stuff..if you beat on her like you say.as you know its always best to mag it and make sure and turn it down if need be.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:30 AM
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Yeah, after doing a lot more research on it I think if I do wind up tearing into it I'm gonna do just like you mentioned, a cheap set of forged rods and pistons on the stock crank and call it a day. Up the cam a little and whack it with a 200 shot. All I'm looking for is mid 11's on the bottle and I'm fairly certain that will get me there lol.
On another note, small block chevy rods and pistons are universal not lt1 specific correct? Just get whatever, have it balanced, and I should be good to go?
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bottledbird68 View Post
Yeah, after doing a lot more research on it I think if I do wind up tearing into it I'm gonna do just like you mentioned, a cheap set of forged rods and pistons on the stock crank and call it a day. Up the cam a little and whack it with a 200 shot. All I'm looking for is mid 11's on the bottle and I'm fairly certain that will get me there lol.
On another note, small block chevy rods and pistons are universal not lt1 specific correct? Just get whatever, have it balanced, and I should be good to go?

as long as you have the crank rebalanced for the new rotating weight any SBC gen 1/2 rods will work. as long as your obvious things are met like piston is made for 5.7" rod yada yada
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:31 PM
bottledbird68 bottledbird68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILuvPizzaTimes10 View Post
as long as you have the crank rebalanced for the new rotating weight any SBC gen 1/2 rods will work. as long as your obvious things are met like piston is made for 5.7" rod yada yada
And ditto on the pistons I assume as long as the pin fits and it's the right size for the hole? Nothing funky with the valve pockets or anything?
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:53 PM
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that all depends on your heads and cam setup

i ran with HUGE valve relief so i never needed to worry about PTV. But if i ran a Much bigger cam id be in trouble. it ALL depends on top end for ptv. if your gunna spray id say stay in the high compression ratio mostly stock if not stock heads and a mild cam. and you'll be alright.

SRP makes a GREAT set of entry level/cheaper pistons with a good relief and setup for 355 with a 5.7 or 6.0 rod depending on what you want to go with. id say longer rods would be better to keep the R/S angle a little better for a Hit of nitrous.
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