pulled the front clip off the Z/28

[DavidS]

Time to start cleaning off the surface rust, get the engine rebuilt and rebuild the front end/subframe.

I measured all shims as they came off and bagged everything. Then took the clip off in one piece.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-01_08-07-14_887.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-01_08-07-27_467.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-01_08-07-33_600.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-01_08-35-32_661.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-01_08-35-55_647.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-01_08-39-49_577.jpg

The car was brought to John at Laurel Automotive in Simsbury. He is going to take the motor off and bring it across the street to Norm Case at Precision Engines. John will then take off the subframe, rear, etc and mount the body on a body cart. Then he's going to give everything back to me except the motor for me to clean up and fix.

[DAWG]

nice winter progect.
if ya need a hand you know who to call.

[ls6monte]

TWO Camaro's apart already? Guess you have plenty of money to spend! lol

Good luck David!

[DavidS]

nice winter progect.
if ya need a hand you know who to call.

Thanks Dawg!!! I will definitely need some help getting the clip back on. It was a pain taking it off. This is definitely the winter project this year! I'm going to need a lot more Roloc discs.


TWO Camaro's apart already? Guess you have plenty of money to spend! lol

Good luck David!

Thanks Ron!

Two apart....but not much going back together yet....HA

[Formula413]

At least you have a running one to keep you occupied LOL

[*LS1* Queen]

nice...good luck with it!

[ZFreie]

Holy cow that thing is clean. Your gonna have issues picking which to drive once they are done.

[DAWG]

ya might concider a small bead blaster to use on the parts?
then sell it when done to recoup some money?
bead blaster will save alot of time!

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

i dont even know what to say right now. honestly. i can barely handle one f bucket an you 2 in pieces!!!! you either have brass balls or a gluten for punishment!

[DavidS]

At least you have a running one to keep you occupied LOL
HA!!!! The 68 is the only one without big problems right now. It idles high, but I am not doing anything to it or the cam since it runs well enough, at least for now.

nice...good luck with it!
Thanks Maddie! I will do one small piece at a time and not rush things.

Holy cow that thing is clean. Your gonna have issues picking which to drive once they are done.
Not too bad....Long drives like the Quabbin Cruise = 68, Short Drives like to Marks cruise night = Big Block 69, and just cruising around town = 69Z


ya might concider a small bead blaster to use on the parts?
then sell it when done to recoup some money?
bead blaster will save alot of time!

Got one at work but it can only do small parts. The subframe I am going to have acid dipped at Bass Plating in Bloomfield CT.


i dont even know what to say right now. honestly. i can barely handle one f bucket an you 2 in pieces!!!! you either have brass balls or a gluten for punishment!

I know, I have a car addiction problem. I can't help it.

[DavidS]

I am going to leave the exterior paint alone except for a few small patches.

The engine bay, I want to look like this except for the smog. I am planning on leaving headers on it.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-fjisktTZWR0/SOmQtz2YTkI/AAAAAAAAR2o/0Z7FQOsWewg/s640/CIMG5218.JPG

There are quite a few Z/28 302 pics here: https://picasaweb.google.com/LucasRestorations/SteveKate69Z283#5253889556991200834

[My84Z]

Man with all tht money you spend fixing these things why not juat go to barrett jackson or the like and buy a mint one

[DavidS]

HA!!!!

Like this one for 143?

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=722&aid=222

It's nice, but no, thanks.

edit: I was just looking at the ad again. Why would a car without a speck of rust and perfect body panels need a frame off restoration? Faded paint maybe?

edit 2: if I hit it big on Lotto and money didn't matter, I would be buying this EBay Z/28 for only 499.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280732259801&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/jmz28.jpg

[My84Z]

you can get them for alot better then that price and you will probably be close by the time your done restoring these lol "Old Reliable" is pretty sexy though!

[monytorris]

Very nice! Damn, now I want a first gen.

[DavidS]

you can get them for alot better then that price and you will probably be close by the time your done restoring these lol "Old Reliable" is pretty sexy though!

but sometimes you never really know if still needs a lot of work, or has fake tags and is extremely well done clone, or is a rebody.

[DavidS]

Very nice! Damn, now I want a first gen.

I thought you just sold one.

[My84Z]

I guess man lol either way they are sexy cars. I just felt bad for ya with all u are doing to them but i guess you knew what u were getting intO

[monytorris]

I thought you just sold one.


I did sell my 67, it was a project car for me and my ex-fiance so I got rid of it more to spite her than anything but seeing yours makes me want one. I do like the 68 and 69 more, I hate the triangle windows in the 67's.

[DavidS]

I guess man lol either way they are sexy cars. I just felt bad for ya with all u are doing to them but i guess you knew what u were getting intO

Ah, OK. With the 69Z I wouldn't have it any other way. The only thing I have into it right now is the original purchase price + shipping to CT + $800 for Jerry M to inspect it + $250 for the car detective. I am not going with a high end restoration shop, just local guys and all I really want done is clean-up of the surface rust and the engine rebuild. The body is solid, but needs clean-up. Laurel and Precision Engines have reasonable pricing and have done stuff for me in the past.

The great thing for me, and this might sound goofy, is the car kind of has come alive in talking with 6 of the former owners on the phone. Most are Vietnam vets, and really liked the car. 3 have offered to buy it off me. I like hearing about their history with the car and the things they did with it.

[DavidS]

I did sell my 67, it was a project car for me and my ex-fiance so I got rid of it more to spite her than anything but seeing yours makes me want one. I do like the 68 and 69 more, I hate the triangle windows in the 67's.

As the economy gets worse, pricing is getting more reasonable. I'm sure you already know this, but body condition is probably the most critical factor.

[monytorris]

Yeah I hate body work, I figured I'd start looking again before christmas time. I have always been able to find really good deals around the holidays.

[jeff68]

He is going to take the motor off and bring it across the street to Norm Case at Precision Engines.

Good choice. Norm did the L30 engine in my 68 back in the mid 80's. That little 327 surprised a lot of people. I can't wait to get it running again, especially now that my Quadrajet is properly set up. A fresh 302 is going to be awesome.

I love the plans for the car. As for the rear end, are you just going to have it cleaned & repainted? New Gardner exhaust maybe?

If you need additional help, just give me a call.

[DavidS]

Good choice. Norm did the L30 engine in my 68 back in the mid 80's. That little 327 surprised a lot of people. I can't wait to get it running again, especially now that my Quadrajet is properly set up. A fresh 302 is going to be awesome.

I love the plans for the car. As for the rear end, are you just going to have it cleaned & repainted? New Gardner exhaust maybe?

If you need additional help, just give me a call.

I'm going to try to get away with as little repainting as I can. Just the surface rust areas. Worst case is I will rattle-can the underside and engine bay. I'm going to leave the exterior alone even though it could use a repaint. I figure I'll drive it for 5-10 years as is. I just don't like the surface rust everywhere.

I will probably go with a Gardner exhaust connected to Doug Thorley headers. The headers came in already.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/headers.jpg

One slight problem is that I'd like to keep everything totally stock. A stock 302 had a compression ratio of 11.5:1 which means it will probably run terrible on pump gas. There is a Sunoco station about 2 miles from Kaman in Bloomfield CT where I could get Sunoco 260 GT100 which is 100 octane unleaded so it wouldn't be too bad.

Thanks for the offer to help. If I run into a bind, I might take you up on that.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

you are doin the proper head work to run unleaded right? 11.5 on a cast head you are asking for a hole in a piston. 100 octane Might solve it lead additive is an option or get aluminum heads? and pain them to "look" correct but save all the original pieces?

[DavidS]

you are doin the proper head work to run unleaded right? 11.5 on a cast head you are asking for a hole in a piston. 100 octane Might solve it lead additive is an option or get aluminum heads? and pain them to "look" correct but save all the original pieces?

Thanks Pizza! Will talk to Norm about this and probably go with the lead additive.

[DAWG]

or just get leaded gas from hollands garage in burlington.
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=hollands+garage+burlington+CT&fb=1&gl=us&hq=hollands+garage&hnear=0x89e7a4e6289934f3:0xf89c4966a99385c9,Burlin gton,+CT&cid=4271023131948817667
get aftermarket aluminum heads as pizza said and keep the originals !

[DavidS]

or just get leaded gas from hollands garage in burlington.
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=hollands+garage+burlington+CT&fb=1&gl=us&hq=hollands+garage&hnear=0x89e7a4e6289934f3:0xf89c4966a99385c9,Burlin gton,+CT&cid=4271023131948817667
get aftermarket aluminum heads as pizza said and keep the originals !

Dawg, What's the highest octane rating that they have? You run race gas in your car right?

[DavidS]

I made a mistake on the compression ratio. It's supposed to be 11:1.

It looks like a lot of guys run aviation gas: http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=2355.0;all

[My84Z]

My car runs 11 to 1 on pump :shrug:

[DavidS]

My car runs 11 to 1 on pump :shrug:

Yep. It looks like some guys run 11:1 on pump with no problems at all.

[My84Z]

Yeah as long asyou have 93 should be no problem at all

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Wrong and Wrong. Sorry guys but an aluminum head transfers heat to water Alot better then a Cast iron head does. So on an aluminum head you wont have hot spots like you will on a cats iron head. like the edges of the squish area and valve shrouds and plug boss. all of those will glow on a cast iron head and with too high of compression will burn the fuel before the plug fires(detonation) and wen that happens kiss a piston good buy.

Lead additive/leaded(aviation fuel) was the reason you could run high comp on pump gas in the 60's. doing it now is not a good idea unless you run vp110(110 octane race fuel) or greater. other wise you will have to back off your timing so far that you could lose almost 100hp just so it wont ping wen its warmed up. run either lower comp pistons with the cast heads or aluminum heads if you want to be able to just drive the car without issue and special fuels. sorry to be long winded but id Really hate for you to do this and then be upset with the performance or need for 7.50 a gallon fuels.

[DavidS]

Thanks for the explanation Pizza!!!! I'd rather have too much info rather than too little.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

any time. theres alot to converting a classic high comp motor over for pump gas use. cast heads are the problem.

[My84Z]

Thanks capt obvious but us aluminum guys go 11.5+ with 93 11 should have no problem on a honda if u wanted lol

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

9.5 on 93 is the limit for cast iron head John!

[My84Z]

No way maybe if you put it together :p

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

look it up. then talk to me with facts not what you think will work. ass.

[My84Z]

Where did u get your facts? I have seen plenty of the stock motor cars running on 93.
With the stock small cam and low timing it will have no problem imho.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

http://www.huntsmachine.com/383ss01p3.html found some good info here. just read parts of it but it better explains what i mean. David talk to your engine guy. he will/better know all of this and will point you in the best direction for a stock appearing engine rebuild to run pump gas 93 octane which is what i recommend.

[DavidS]

http://www.huntsmachine.com/383ss01p3.html found some good info here. just read parts of it but it better explains what i mean. David talk to your engine guy. he will/better know all of this and will point you in the best direction for a stock appearing engine rebuild to run pump gas 93 octane which is what i recommend.

OK, Thanks! Will do.

[My84Z]

Btw i took this from a 302 motor builder who races nastalgia classes and stock race classes
In my experience the actual compression ratio on most of the "original" 302s was lucky to be 10 to 1, although they were rated at 11.0. I usually had to deck the the block to legal specs, and mill a bunch from the heads to get them to min (again legal) ccs, and the 11 to 1 comp ratio. In my opinion its just hard to get comp in small engines.

[My84Z]

David either way just rebuild it stock cause obviously that is the whole reason you bought the car and just put it on a dyno or have the
Engine builder put it on a engine dyno and check what
It needs before running it around

[DavidS]

David either way just rebuild it stock cause obviously that is the whole reason you bought the car and just put it on a dyno or have the
Engine builder put it on a engine dyno and check what
It needs before running it around

I am going to have a long talk with Norm. He has been rebuilding engines for a long time so he should have some good advice. I was definitely planning on having him dyno it.

Thanks for all your help!!! You and Pizza have given me a lot to think about!!!

[DavidS]

Engine is out......
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-07_09-03-56_179.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-07_09-04-50_218.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-07_09-06-56_453.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-07_09-11-41_267.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-07_09-10-19_392.jpg

[DAWG]

great time to freshen up the heater blower and the heater core lol!

[DavidS]

great time to freshen up the heater blower and the heater core lol!

Yep. The previous owner had pulled out the heater core and blower since it sprung a leak. He took a complete heater setup out of a scrapped 69 Camaro.

Should I get a new heater core from Ricks though? It would be terrible to put an old one in and have it leak.

Ricks has this one for $60. Part number HC-20


http://htsmall.rickscamaros.com/assets/rfg/images/size/265x265/sku/HC-20.jpg

[DAWG]

get a new one, infact
get a spare like I did!
you have 2 69s now.
I have a heater assy with cables and controls if ya need it?
come check out the heater core aswell cuz i didnt really need it lol.

[DavidS]

OK. l'll call you and stop by sometime soon. I'll buy the heater core off you.

Thanks!

[DavidS]

I picked up a BadBoy Vacuum recovery portable Media blaster. Found it on Craigslist for $225.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/badboy-blaster.jpg

I also found my first nasty through-hole on the body on the passenger side fender near the bottom. I poked at it for a while and then cleaned it up with a dremel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-11_11-05-27_47.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-11_18-03-44_538.jpg

I took the the passenger side inner and outer fenders off to start cleaning them up. My father-in-law and I welded in a new piece about an hour ago. It still needs some work.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-11_18-36-13_952.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

damn that looks nasty hope there arent too many more of those!

[DavidS]

damn that looks nasty hope there arent too many more of those!

So far…. that is the only real nasty spot.
----------------------------------------------------------
A lot of the parts were replaced in the 302 DZ.

The cam had been changed. I think it might be a Crane cam.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-12_09-15-03_872.jpg
http://www.cranecams.com/product/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=23891
One of the lobes was wiped out.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-12_09-15-25_912.jpg

Norm is going to change it to an exact equivalent of the original 30/30 with a Comp Cams kit #CL12-107-3.

Cam Style Mechanical flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range 2,800-6,800
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift 254
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift 254
Duration at 050 inch Lift 254 int./254 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration 346
Advertised Exhaust Duration 346
Advertised Duration 346 int./346 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.485 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.485 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio 0.485 int./0.485 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees) 114
Camshaft Gear Attachment 3-bolt
Intake Valve Lash 0.024 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash 0.024 in.
Grind Number 346S

Pic of the block
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-12_09-20-26_461.jpg

One of the guys working there said the double roller chain on the crankshaft is not correct. I looked it up and stock is supposed to be timing chain (3896961), crank sprocket (3896959) and cam sprocket (3896960).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-12_09-40-14_349.jpg

Oil pump is not stock:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-12_09-37-54_685.jpg

[frankzlt1]

is that cam an eco fuel saver cam. lol

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

that sucks. alot of work tracking down OE parts? but is now the time to drop in a better cam more technological cam but similar lope to a stocker.

[DavidS]

that sucks. alot of work tracking down OE parts? but is now the time to drop in a better cam more technological cam but similar lope to a stocker.

The Comp Cams replacement is supposed to be pretty good and the kit is $225.

The spec sheet page is here: http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=3&sb=2

[DAWG]

IMO I would put an equivlent roller cam in.
less chance for lobe wipe and itll free up some HP.
but if you do go with an original make sure you use zinc additive in the oil or else itll wipe a lobe sooner than later.

[DavidS]

IMO I would put an equivlent roller cam in.
less chance for lobe wipe and itll free up some HP.
but if you do go with an original make sure you use zinc additive in the oil or else itll wipe a lobe sooner than later.

You are right, but I'm staying original on this one Dawg. Will take your advice on the zinc additive.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

hjust run rotella 15w 40. has the zinc in it already no need to buy a seperate additive.

[DavidS]

hjust run rotella 15w 40. has the zinc in it already no need to buy a seperate additive.

OK, Great! That makes it easier.

[DAWG]

last year Rotella cut back on the zinc so it isnt as good as it used to be.
read up here:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-449335.html
David thats why I have those little bottles of ZDDP. I gave ya one to put in your 68.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

yeah i was just reading that^^ chevron delo is good to use. still has 1500ppm of zddp.

[Grovlet]

Amsoil now makes a Zinc Added Synthetic:
Z-Rod 20W-50 (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/zrf.aspx)

They say 'High Zinc', and I did find a dealer quote:
'The TSB lists that these oils have zinc – 1440 ppm, phosphorus 1320 ppm'

So knowing Amsoil's reputation, this may be a nice option:Tigger::sCh_sonic:

Edit: Found the TSB: Amsoil Flat Tappet and Lobe Lubrication TSB (http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulletin/MotorOil/TSB%20MO-2007-08-08%20Flat%20Tappet.pdf)

[DAWG]

ouch 10.20 a quart????
but at least there is something out there.
I seen some use golden spectro (motorcycle oil) has very high zinc.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

spectro is nice too. id say just get the chevron delo. its cheap and has the same content as amsoil for less then half the cost.

[DAWG]

thks Pizza the delo does have some good zinc numbers.
at least the 10W30 does
heres the specs
http://shorelinefuel.com/msds/delooil_msds.pdf

[Grovlet]

If you join the Amsoil 'Preferred Customer Program' ($20/year at most), it drops the price to ~$7.50/qt., which is still not cheap, but at least palatable.

[DavidS]

This week, I primered one of the inner fenders with an epoxy 2K primer. It came in a rattle can and worked out nice.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-22_17-02-41_908.jpg

The subframe is off and is in my garage right now:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-23_15-30-11_189.jpg

The engine is looking good and will probably be fired up soon:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-27_09-38-45_206.jpg

I brought a whole bunch of subframe parts (and some other parts) to Labrecque Autocraft for Mike to rebuild the front end:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-26_13-03-56_833.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-26_13-04-18_419.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-26_13-03-14_533.jpg

The body is about to go on the body cart:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-27_09-50-57_647.jpg

The underside is fairly clean:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-27_09-52-35_150-1.jpg

But I found two small rust spots on the side of the body near the bottom.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-27_09-55-29_497.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-09-27_09-57-01_182.jpg

Except for these two spots, I think the rest of the body is A-OK.

[Formula413]

I saw a green first gen at Marks last night and I thought it might be yours but then I remembered it was in pieces haha. You really put a lot of attention into detail with your cars, I'm sure this one will turn out great too.

[DavidS]

I saw a green first gen at Marks last night and I thought it might be yours but then I remembered it was in pieces haha. You really put a lot of attention into detail with your cars, I'm sure this one will turn out great too.

HA! At least I have one to cruise around in. The 68 except for idling high rules!!! I thought Marks was over. I missed it last night and could not have gone anyway due to a Cub Scout pack meeting.

I try to do the best I can with the detail work, but the only real thing that ever really gets me is rust. I just hate it.

--------------------------------------------------
Rust Edit: On the inner fender, I ground off most of the surface rust with a 3M SandBlaster 9681 4-1/2-Inch Coarse Clean-N-Strip Disc: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQURDI

Then, for the spots I couldn't reach, I used Ospho.

I read in a whole bunch of postings that:

a) when you use Ospho, you shouldn't use an etching primer
b) when you are primering bare metal, you should not use Eastwood Rust Encapsulator paint
c) use an epoxy primer

For epoxy primer, I went with Spray Max Epoxy Primer: http://www.eastwood.com/spray-max-epoxy-primer-aerosol.html

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

all good stuff!!!! Good Luck with it. that motor looks AWESOME!!!

[KLAB]

you are doin the proper head work to run unleaded right? 11.5 on a cast head you are asking for a hole in a piston. 100 octane Might solve it lead additive is an option or get aluminum heads? and pain them to "look" correct but save all the original pieces?

This man speaks truths. Cracked the #6 piston on my step dads domed 1970 LT1 that way. Lower compression iron heads killed power but runs great now. :klab:

[jeff68]

I read in a whole bunch of postings that:
...b) when you are primering bare metal, you should not use Eastwood Rust Encapsulator paint
...

I contacted Eastwood Tech Help and found that Rust Encapsulator is supposed to be fine over bare metal as a primer. They told me to ensure that the surface was scuffed with 180-220 grit paper and properly cleaned. I used it as a bare metal primer on the firewall and radiator support of my Land Rover. I sandblasted the parts, then gave then a quick once-over with 220 grit before cleaning and spraying on the Encapsulator. After dry, it was top coated with either military CARC-substitute enamel paint or Rust-Oleum semi-gloss black enamel. So far, so good.

[DavidS]

This man speaks truths. Cracked the #6 piston on my step dads domed 1970 LT1 that way. Lower compression iron heads killed power but runs great now. :klab:

I'll probably be going with 100 octane and a lead additive.

[DavidS]

I contacted Eastwood Tech Help and found that Rust Encapsulator is supposed to be fine over bare metal as a primer. They told me to ensure that the surface was scuffed with 180-220 grit paper and properly cleaned. I used it as a bare metal primer on the firewall and radiator support of my Land Rover. I sandblasted the parts, then gave then a quick once-over with 220 grit before cleaning and spraying on the Encapsulator. After dry, it was top coated with either military CARC-substitute enamel paint or Rust-Oleum semi-gloss black enamel. So far, so good.

Thanks Jeff. This is good to know. I have 4 or 5 cans here.

[DAWG]

I'll probably be going with 100 octane and a lead additive.

hollands garage will help ya out .
they sell 50 gal barrels of the fuel (leaded or unleaded)
better off with the leaded gas, those lead additives are not so great.

[DavidS]

hollands garage will help ya out .
they sell 50 gal barrels of the fuel (leaded or unleaded)
better off with the leaded gas, those lead additives are not so great.

Sounds good. Thanks Dawg!!!

[ls6monte]

If your interested David, my friend is selling a new drum of C16. I'm not sure on price but I can find out if you want me to.

[DavidS]

If your interested David, my friend is selling a new drum of C16. I'm not sure on price but I can find out if you want me to.

Thanks for the offer Ron!!! At this point though, I am not sure. I will talk to Norm at Precision and see what he thinks.

[DavidS]

Engine is done, but Norm is out this week. Should be on the dyno next week.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-10-17_09-28-07_375.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-10-17_09-29-06_179.jpg

[DAWG]

very pretty!
congrats on the shiney new motor!!!!!

[ls6monte]

Looks sweet David!

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Damn that looks Awesome!!!

[DavidS]

Thanks guys!!!

I'm hoping for 320-340 hp.

[irockidz28]

nice!

[Northeast Rod Run]

do you have an original style air cleaner to finish off the engine rebuild? very classic looking

[DavidS]

do you have an original style air cleaner to finish off the engine rebuild? very classic looking

I've got the original one, but it needs to be cleaned up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/left-side-engine.jpg

[DAWG]

yeah I would get a new one lol.
they are plentiful.

[Northeast Rod Run]

yeah I would get a new one lol.
they are plentiful.

I agree!

[DavidS]

Norm at Precision Automotive dyno'd the engine today.

It kept stumbling when it got over 5500 rpm. Norm tried the fuel pump lines, the fuel pump, the points, and then jets, power valves....etc....and nothing fixed the problem. Almost an hour laster, and Norm found that the problem was the coil.

It was a restored coil, and I went to check the box. Based on where it was made, it just figures:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-11-15_10-43-33_272.jpg

Pic of Norm trying to find the problem:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-11-15_10-37-45_153.jpg

[DavidS]

After finding the coil problem, the DZ 302 was running much better.

On the dyno
mj_HtKfGGPA

After finding the coil problem, he did about 2 more trials.
Trial 1: Max Torque=332 at 4900 rpm, Max HP=354 at 5800 rpm
Trial 2: Max Torque=329 at 4900 rpm, Max HP=356 at 6400 rpm

Graph
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-11-15_11-07-44_708.jpg
Chart
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-11-15_11-08-40_184.jpg

There is still a problem though since it is not idling well. The lowest idle was 1500 rpm and it should be about 900. Norm thinks that most likely it is the carb. I might have to send it out to get checked.

[ls6monte]

Very nice David! Sounds sweet!

[DavidS]

Very nice David! Sounds sweet!

Thanks Ron! I am hoping the idle problem is easy to find. Most of the postings I have read on completely stock DZ 302's have an idle around 900 with no problem.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Damn that thing pulled pretty good!!! so whats the deal with the Idle? whats it doing? id like to know for future reference!

[DavidS]

Damn that thing pulled pretty good!!! so whats the deal with the Idle? whats it doing? id like to know for future reference!

When the idle drops below 1500 to 1700 rpm, the engine stalls out. Norm kept adjusting the idle, float level, etc but nothing worked to stop the stalling.

[frankzlt1]

Dam holley carbs they either work good or stumble on them selves. Dave you might want to check powervalves out, also what size jet are in there.

[DavidS]

Dam holley carbs they either work good or stumble on them selves. Dave you might want to check powervalves out, also what size jet are in there.

Hi Frank,

We started with

Jets = 72 primary and 76 secondary.
Power Valves = 6.5 primary and 8.5 secondary

And also tried:
Power Valves = 6.5 primary and 6.5 secondary

This setup should have worked perfectly since many others with the 4053 DZ carb use this. But it just keeps stalling out during a normal idle. Except for the idle problem, the engine seems to be running great.

[frankzlt1]

Yea those # look awesome, is that hp and torque were it would be for the stock motor. Did you try leaning out the carb a little meaning a little smaller jet size. How many turns are the side screws out from full close. Did you check for any vacuum leaks in the base of carb.

[frankzlt1]

I was in your neck of the woods today by lost acres rd doing pm's on generators. I see its still a big mess there.

[DavidS]

Yea those # look awesome, is that hp and torque were it would be for the stock motor. Did you try leaning out the carb a little meaning a little smaller jet size. How many turns are the side screws out from full close. Did you check for any vacuum leaks in the base of carb.

I believe that the numbers are typical for a stock DZ 302. We didn't try a smaller jet size and I'm not sure how many turns on the side screws but Norm was trying adjustments for about an hour and he knows the Holley carbs well. He is going to pull the carb off and we are going to take a look at in the morning. If we can't find an obvious problem, it is going to Eric Jackson at Vintage MuscleCar Parts: http://www.vintagemusclecarparts.com/

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

sounds like your only running off the intermediate jets. and the idle orifices are plugged. or maybe just one of them. the will only be on the primary side and they are not jetted. i bet a small piece of shit is stuck in there preventing the flow to the venturi?? just a thought. ive fucked around with holleys back in my younger days. and wen they wouldnt idle thats what it was. just a small piece of crap in the hole.

[DAWG]

if its the original carb i would suspect the primary throttle bushings are worn and causing a huge vac leak.
or your air bleeds could be blocked etc.
Idle transfer slots not exposed, or primary throttle blades not adjusted correctly.
Wrong throttle plate to body gasket if it was rebuilt in the past. (incorrect gasket will cover some ports needed for idle circuit)
I guess you might need a full cleaning and rebuild of the carb.

[DavidS]

Carb is out for repair.

Kevin at Labrecque's has taken loads of pictures of the Z.

Album1, 38 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/)

Arrival, 9 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Arrival%20Documentation/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Arrival%20Documentation/)

Body Panels, 56 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/body%20panels/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/body%20panels/)

Firewall, 23 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/firewall/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/firewall/)

Interior, 19 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/interior/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/interior/)

Lights & Elec, 20 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/lightsandelec/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/lightsandelec/)

Mechanical, 24 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/mechanical/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/mechanical/)

Stripe Measurements, 17 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/stripe%20measurements/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/stripe%20measurements/)

Suspension, 4 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/suspension/ (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/suspension/)

Underfloor, 83 pics: http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/underfloor (http://s1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/underfloor)

[DAWG]

yeah a lot of work needs to be done on that car!
Dont fret though mine looked as bad if not worse and it came out pretty darnn good.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Damn!!!!! that things as much work as the other one?!?!?! i think you just love to buy them just to fix them up?!?!?!?

[My84Z]

Just a couple ?'s 1) what do you do for a living and are they hiring? 2) looking to adopt? I can do all yard work house work etc....

[DavidS]

Damn!!!!! that things as much work as the other one?!?!?! i think you just love to buy them just to fix them up?!?!?!?

HA! This one should be a lot less work. No new sheet metal. No rocker panels, no frame rails, no roof, no doors, no quarter panels, etc. etc. etc. It's actually very solid, but needs cleaning, repainting and rebuilding.

Just a couple ?'s 1) what do you do for a living and are they hiring? 2) looking to adopt? I can do all yard work house work etc....
1)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/dilbert.jpg

2) Not looking to adopt. With the 3 cars, I have too many dependants already.

[DAWG]

what was the issue with the carb?

[DavidS]

what was the issue with the carb?

It's been repaired and it's on the way back.

"I tried to run it as-delivered and it did barely idle down below 1500 but very poorly and wouldn't hold. I noted the trim screws were out something like 3 turns, so I removed them and back-flushed the idle circuits with a blast of carb cleaner followed with a hit from the air hose, reinstalled the trim screws and it ran like a champ.

I went ahead and pulled the bowls to check for debris but only found a small amount--nothing that threw up a red flag. I flushed out both metering blocks again and re- tested the carb on two separate days to try to make sure there wasn't an intermittent issue in hiding. Both times it ran great, so it's on the way back to you.

I don't know what specifically got into the carb, this is just one of those things that occasionally happens no matter how hard we try to prevent it. At least it's an easy & quick fix."

[DAWG]

well ill be suprized if it works this time?
doesnt seem like they went deep enough?
anyone can clean a carb but finding out if it has the right emulsion tubes/ air bleeds or worse the right metering blocks.
I have 650 cfm dbl pumper you can use for troubleshooting david if ya need it.

[DavidS]

well ill be suprized if it works this time?
doesnt seem like they went deep enough?
anyone can clean a carb but finding out if it has the right emulsion tubes/ air bleeds or worse the right metering blocks.
I have 650 cfm dbl pumper you can use for troubleshooting david if ya need it.

It should work Dawg. It had a full restoration by Vintage Musclecar Parts and I bought it off the guy who had it restored. I don't know if he had any problems or changed anything on it to mess it up.

Pics of the restored carb before I bought it:
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/dz-carb2.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/dz-carb1.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/dz-carb3.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

seems just like some shit got into the idle circuits. you should be good to go!

[DavidS]

seems just like some shit got into the idle circuits. you should be good to go!

Yep. It looks like you got it exactly right about a week ago.

sounds like your only running off the intermediate jets. and the idle orifices are plugged. or maybe just one of them. the will only be on the primary side and they are not jetted. i bet a small piece of shit is stuck in there preventing the flow to the venturi?? just a thought. ive fucked around with holleys back in my younger days. and wen they wouldnt idle thats what it was. just a small piece of crap in the hole.

[DavidS]

parts are back from being dipped, frame stub is next

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/Img_5237.jpg

[frankzlt1]

Looks really good. Is the car going to have the new car smell as well lol

[DavidS]

Looks really good. Is the car going to have the new car smell as well lol

HA! Probably a new Dupont paint smell.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

dammit your painting it???!?!?!?! no more survivor?!?!?!?1 :(

[DavidS]

dammit your painting it???!?!?!?! no more survivor?!?!?!?1 :(

There were sections of the car that had been repainted previously. It looked like the sections that had not been repainted had spider-web cracks all over the place. The problem is that once I start picking away at stuff it ends up being a full frame off restoration. I have a hard time just leaving things alone.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

yeah no shit!!!!! hahahaa hey i can do odds and ends around the house for 9 million dollars an hour? deal???

[DavidS]

yeah no shit!!!!! hahahaa hey i can do odds and ends around the house for 9 million dollars an hour? deal???

HA!!! No way! Not unless you look like Jessica Alba!!!

[DavidS]

The body is disassembled and left today to be stripped.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/Img_5268.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/Img_5269.jpg

[DAWG]

HA!!! No way! Not unless you look like Jessica Alba!!!he does a great impression of super woman though!!!!!!!
lemme access the archives, hmmmm lets see, OH yeah here yA go!
http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/ab157/dawg50/l_00ab74bddcd8483f8fc0713ee575569c.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Fuck You Dawg!!!! hahahahaha

[DAWG]

Only for you buddy only for you lol!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DavidS]

Body and doors are back from being sandblasted.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-15-37_802.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-15-49_648.jpg

some rot near the wheelwell
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-15-59_461.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-16-20_367.jpg

the WORST section is the cowl panel
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-16-37_945.jpg

doors look good
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-16-48_405.jpg

mike is turning it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-22-32_862.jpg

section had been repaired at some point
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-23-42_335.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-23-45_838.jpg

there are some dents on the underside that need to get hammered out
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-26-16_273.jpg

some rot near the rear underside
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-19_13-26-29_396.jpg

Overall, the body is solid but needs some TLC.

[frankzlt1]

wow thats not to bad,the under side looks pretty good

[DAWG]

looks good actually!
the cowl area on every camaro looks like that I replaced the dash and cowl on my camaro.

[ls6monte]

That's not too bad for a 40+ year old car that was driven pretty hard in it's lifetime.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

yeah not as bad as i expected at all! But stilllllllll number two camaro?!?!?!?!?! hahahaha

[DavidS]

Thanks for the encouragement guys!!!

But stilllllllll number two camaro?!?!?!?!?! hahahaha

I know, I know, I have OCD....Obsessive Camaro Disorder.

[DAWG]

you are still missing one!!!!

[lunatic_magnet]

art least you have floors in yours. LOL.

[DavidS]

art least you have floors in yours. LOL.

Have you done more work on your 69 Camaro? Any new pics? Did you use any of the interior pieces you picked up in Granby a while back?

[jeff68]

Looks good David. Now that it's stripped, It's going to save me a bunch of time when I'm over at the shop. I'd end up standing there a while, just looking at your Z, taking in how unmolested everything is.

[DavidS]

Looks good David. Now that it's stripped, It's going to save me a bunch of time when I'm over at the shop. I'd end up standing there a while, just looking at your Z, taking in how unmolested everything is.

I think I have left it fully molested.....HA. At least Mike has loads of pics and anything rotting or pin-holed will be removed or repaired.

Also, THANKS for answering all my questions on weatherstripping, coils, distributor caps, etc!!!!!!

[jeff68]

I saw the stripped shell in person this morning when dropping off x-mas cookies with the crew. It's really in great shape!

[DavidS]

Mike sent me a few more pics after they cleaned it off.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_5339.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_5352.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/IMG_5346.jpg

[DavidS]

With help from Jeff68, I was able to track down NOS trunk weatherstrip. Buying anything for a 69 Camaro NOS is a real pain because there is not much left and those that have it want huge $$$. On the other side, going with repop can be more painful because a lot of times it is foreign junk and doesn’t fit.

The only one that is known to fit with no problems is part number 4468625 that has a white string in it.
The other later part numbers I think don’t fit very well 8723802, 9825829, and 3060942.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-23_20-55-54_677.jpg

[DavidS]

The interior standard door panels that were on the car are in bad shape. I picked up a set on EBay and they came in today. They are not perfect, but they were only $305 and no one else bid on them. They are also a lot better than the ones that were on the car. I am going to try to find a good local upholsterer that works with vinyl to try and make them better. The bottom edges are very brittle in some areas.

There is a manufacturer, part numbers, and dates on the back. It's a little strange that I did a whole bunch of Internet searches on Seaman. One guy confirmed the Seaman and numbers on camaros.net and there is no info on the CRG (camaros.org).

The drivers side has "Seaman 7793352 10-14-68"
The passenger side has "Seaman 7793353 9-24-68"

Both dates are great for me since it is a 69 01B car.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/door-panels-ebay.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/doorpanels018.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/doorpanels013.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-29_20-25-42_823.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-29_20-25-09_525.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2011-12-29_20-23-41_885.jpg

[DAWG]

try here David
Classic Auto Interiors
118 Putter Lane, Torrington, CT 06790-2302
(860) 489-5715
I seen his work and its flawless.
IMO I would have just gotten repop panels cuz door panels are one of those things that you wont find in good shape that are original.‎
trust me I looked high and low lol.

[DavidS]

try here David
Classic Auto Interiors
118 Putter Lane, Torrington, CT 06790-2302
(860) 489-5715
I seen his work and its flawless.
IMO I would have just gotten repop panels cuz door panels are one of those things that you wont find in good shape that are original.‎
trust me I looked high and low lol.

Thanks Dawg! I'll either give them a call or stop in and talk to them.

These EBay ones are not too bad. They just need a little work to make them perfect.

For the COPO car I picked up real nice repops from TMI Products. I compared them to the original panels and the differences are very small. The COPO car is a clone car loaded with repop stuff anyway.

The Z will end up with very little repop.

[DavidS]

NOS dash panel came in today. It looked good but had a little rust on it and is a little bent in one spot. 43 years old though so overall it is A-OK.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/cell_dec_2011/2011-12-30_13-51-47_711.jpg

but the original GM box it was in had a very hard life. LOL.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/cell_dec_2011/2011-12-30_12-02-16_70.jpg

I dropped it off at Labrecque Autocraft and Mike has the Z in primer.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/cell_dec_2011/2011-12-30_13-43-35_605.jpg

and I verified that the old door panels that were on the car have the same part number as the ones I picked up on EBay "Seaman 7793352"
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/cell_dec_2011/2011-12-30_13-37-17_261.jpg

There was also a 69 Firebird there that Mike restored with a frame off restoration a while back and the guy wanted a few changes. Sweet. This guy should join the club!!!!
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/cell_dec_2011/2011-12-30_12-55-50_464.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/cell_dec_2011/2011-12-30_13-53-13_515.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Hell Yeah that car is Sweet!!!!!!

[DAWG]

well if we just had New england F body business cards made up we could leave one for them?????

[ls6monte]

well if we just had New england F body business cards made up we could leave one for them?????

They are made but nobody has any because Pizzafuck can never remember to bring them when we have meets!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DavidS]

They are made but nobody has any because Pizzafuck can never remember to bring them when we have meets!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What do the cards say?

I __________ hereby cordially invite you (the owner of a super Fbody) to join the awesomest club in the New England region forewith known as the the North East FBody Association: www.northeast-fbodyassn.com.

Join or die. HA. HA. HA.

http://www.ultimateflags.com/images/P/join-or-die-flag.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

join or die sounds like a good plan!!!!! Go All New Hampshire on there ass!!!!

[c4boom]

ya strait up at to the point

[DavidS]

Z/28 subframe came back from being acid dipped
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/2012-01-17_11-02-44_144.jpg

Mike removed the oil coating, sand blasted the weld seams, prepped and
used a black epoxy primer on it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/Img_5601.jpg

the restoration is moving along
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/z28/Img_5602.jpg

[ls6monte]

Looking good David!


A $1,000,000 later!!!!!!!!!!!! lol

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

so.... you decided to drop that SAME line in two threads from the SAME GUY!?!?!?!?! Ummm WUT!?

[Formula413]

Give him a break, it's Ron, he probably forgot...

[ls6monte]

I know what I did asswipes!! I gotta have my fun!!!!!!


2 Different cars getting big makeovers! He know's what this is costing him! lol

[DavidS]

I know what I did asswipes!! I gotta have my fun!!!!!!

2 Different cars getting big makeovers! He know's what this is costing him! lol

I know Ron, but I gotta have my fun too!

Besides, Alex's college fund is pretty well funded with a 529 plan that I keep paying into. And the wife is getting her kitchen renovation started in two weeks.

These cars are something for me though! Mike Labrecque is pretty good about going as fast or as slow as customers want. He has 30 cars in the shop almost all the time and even though you have to have the $ he will pace the work out so that customers don't get sunk quick.

I am hoping that with the Z that it can be a trailer queen for a year or two before turning it into a local car show type of car. I would like to be able to bring it to the Camaro Nationals in June 2013. There are loads of weird little details to work out along the way though. I am doing my best to not have any foreign repop stuff on it but finding original NOS stuff can be very frustrating.

[DAWG]

Any updates on the cars David?

[DavidS]

Hey Dawg, Hope your wisdom teeth are feeling better. When are you getting them pulled?

For the Z, the passenger side quarter panel had some major rust. Andrew cut a section out of it and welded a new piece in.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_5725.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_5727.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/2012-02-17_10-01-55_955.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/2012-02-17_10-02-17_115.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

man they do some great work there!!!

[DAWG]

boy im betting youll be driving her around fall time this year????
lookin good btw!

[DavidS]

man they do some great work there!!!

yep. Here is the same quarter panel after they got done.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/2012-02-23_09-34-10_42.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/2012-02-23_09-34-30_321.jpg

boy im betting youll be driving her around fall time this year????
lookin good btw!

Definitely not the Z Dawg. Hopefully the big block car though.

[ZFreie]

This place seems to have some serious skill

[DAWG]

yep. Here is the same quarter panel after they got done.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/2012-02-23_09-34-10_42.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/2012-02-23_09-34-30_321.jpg



Definitely not the Z Dawg. Hopefully the big block car though.

YA know ill be itchin for a ride!!!!!!

[DavidS]

YA know ill be itchin for a ride!!!!!!

Sounds good Dawg!

The owner of the Z from 1975 to 1976 just sent me some pictures. He took the pictures while posted at Eglin AFB in Florida in 1975.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSC_0507.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSC_0506.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSC_0509.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSC_0508.jpg

[DAWG]

nice pics
Eglin is a nice airbase.
FT. Walton beach is killer!!!

[irockidz28]

those pics are sweet!!

[Formula413]

Is the Z/28 staying green?

[DavidS]

Is the Z/28 staying green?

Yes, Rallye Green Metallic. I am hoping to have it look exactly like it came off the factory floor in 1969 except it won't have lacquer paint.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Ohh man i love the old Keystones!!! those wheels were kick ass in the day!!! and the "60's" out back. car looks Awesome!!

[DAWG]

any updates David?

[DavidS]

any updates David?

Hey Dawg. Not much has changed on the Z. Mike Labrecque is focusing on getting the big block car done. For some stuff like...like parts I'm missing, weatherstripping and green stripes on spark plugs....I've been updating my blog at: www.z28.net (http://www.z28.net)

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Very Cool Blog Dave!!!!

[DavidS]

Very Cool Blog Dave!!!!

Thanks Pizza!!!

It's a big help for me in staying organized and documenting parts. Between work and family stuff like cub scouts, etc, I have been getting very absent-minded lately.

Plus there are many odd tiny details that are important for a judged car, but for almost anyone else on the planet are totally irrelevant.

[ZFreie]

That blogs awesome!

And 500+ dollars for a bracket! I'm never doing a matching #s resto lol

[DavidS]

That blogs awesome!

And 500+ dollars for a bracket! I'm never doing a matching #s resto lol

Thanks ZFreie!!

Sometimes I wonder what WS6 parts will be selling for in 40 years.

On the bracket price, I totally agree that it's nuts. It looks a little better than the bracket holding my dryer hose in place, but not by much.

[DavidS]

I visited Jack, the guy I bought the car from in Florida about 6 weeks ago and he had a few more pics from the mid 1970's to show me. I took pics of his pictures.

In November 1974, Jack was sent to a aircraft maintainence school at Sheppard AFB Wichita Falls, Texas. I think he learned to repair C130 engines there.

Jacks on the bottom left:
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/P1000358.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-15_11-21-25_986.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-15_11-20-12_795.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-15_11-20-02_21.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-15_11-18-22_863.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-14_17-01-15_811.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-14_16-58-38_133.jpg
At some time between 1970 to 1976, the vertical trim bars on the tail lights came off.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-14_16-58-26_448.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-14_16-57-30_177.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-14_16-57-58_327.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Brister2012/2012-04-14_16-55-40_267.jpg

[ls6monte]

Nice David!

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Very cool!!!! ever track down the Other dave?

[DavidS]

No luck tracking him down Pizza. Dave Brock was the 3rd owner of the car and was stationed at Ft Walton Beach Texas. He is the 3rd guy from the left in the top row.

He only had the car for a few months in 1974.

The car changed hands often from 1974 to 1976 as guys were reassigned or they finished their service. The Vietnam war was also ending during this time period. There are many many many Dave Brocks as it's a real common name.

I tried contacting about 4 Dave Brocks who were in the military or seem to be about the right age, but no luck.

[frankzlt1]

Those are some cool pics Dave. The last few seem to be not that old if I'm looking at the reg right, if so the car held up good for its age.

[DavidS]

Those are some cool pics Dave. The last few seem to be not that old if I'm looking at the reg right, if so the car held up good for its age.

Hi Frank, You're right and I didn't notice the 1984 registration. Thanks! Jack took the car from Florida and drove it to NJ. He kept it at his parents house and then in a garage near his parents house. He then ended up trailering it back to Florida.

[irockidz28]

Awesome! Love the pics. It's really cool you got the opportunity to meet with him like that

[DavidS]

Awesome! Love the pics. It's really cool you got the opportunity to meet with him like that

Thanks!

He lives down the street from my in-laws winter house in Florida. It's real cool because when we go to visit the in-laws I can hang out with Jack, have a few beers, and talk about the Z.

[DavidS]

Moved to the Z thread since I probably will have zero inspection marks on the COPO car.

David-
I've never seen any SPOT regarding correct inspection markings for 1st gen cars. (SPOT = single point of truth.) Your best bet is to clean each original part very carefully, then see what you find. The original markings may be very faint. You can also check out the pictures on the Lucas Restorations site for reference. I don't know if what they do is 'correct', but they are supposed to really know their stuff.
-Jeff

Yep. You are definitely right. There are hundreds of different opinions on inspection marks.

A guy with the username firstgenaddict on the CRG wrote: "ONCE AGAIN... I will say that if you had a time machine and traveled back and bought a brand new 69 Z brought it to the present and put it in a car show...IT WOULD NOT EVEN PLACE.

My opinion is that if you are going to over restore it... you might as well just chrome everything... both ways are incorrect!"

It seems like he is ranting a bit, but there is some truth to his rant.

------------------------------------------------------------
There was loads of surface rust and grime and I don't remember seeing any inspection marks on the Z, but I am going to take a very close look on Friday.

I talked a few times with both Jerry M and Ken Lucas at the Camaro Nationals. Next time I meet up with you at Mike's we can talk about the Nationals. Taking your suggestions, my current plan is to compare 3 sources. My Z, the Lucas Restoration site and an article written by Frank Serafine. It's an older article and many of the things written are not accepted in current judging like the color of the underbody being gray primer. It is partially true, but not accepted.

The article is from "Camaro Enthusiast May-June 1993". I scanned it today and cut out sections from the pages that were in color.

pg 33
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg33a.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg33b.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg33c.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg33d.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg33e.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg33f.jpg
pg 36
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg36a.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg36b.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg36c.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg36d.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg36e.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg36f.jpg
pg 37
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg37a.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg37b.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg37c.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg37d.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/inspmarks/pg37e.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Damn look at all that info!!! Holy Crap!!! haha

[DavidS]

Damn look at all that info!!! Holy Crap!!! haha

Sorry Pizza.....I've been reading too much stuff and can't keep track. I'm trying my best to figure out how to make the Z right.

There are loads of little weird details and one huge problem is that no one took color pictures of these weird details about 40 years ago. There were 20,302 Z/28's and a total of 243,085 Camaros produced in 1969 and no one took detail pictures.

I can find a few things and the best stuff is magazine pictures from 1969.

Like this one from April 1969, Popular Hot Rodding. It's a picture of a Z/28 engine, a DZ 302 that was tested with headers.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/302DZ-2.jpg

[DAWG]

california car due to the smog pump check valves.

[jeff68]

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen the smog system retained with headers.

DAWG- The smog system came on cars other than CA cars. My 68 was sold new here in CT and came with a smog system. My father removed it within the first few thousand miles and put all the parts in boxes. I still have them stashed away somewhere.

[frankzlt1]

That is a lot of really cool info.

[DavidS]

The smog system came on cars other than CA cars.

Correct. All 69 Z/28's came with smog. You could order them with headers that would come in the trunk and the dealer could install them.

edit: in 67 and 68, You could order them with dealer installed headers. Not in 69.


That is a lot of really cool info.

I'm glad I found the magazine, but the article was written 24 years ago so it may not be 100% accurate. If it was written 35 to 43 years ago, it would be PERFECT to base a restoration on it.

[jeff68]

You could order them with headers that would come in the trunk and the dealer could install them.

Right, but I thought that the Kustom headers did not have provisions for the smog tubes.

[DavidS]

Right, but I thought that the Kustom headers did not have provisions for the smog tubes.

The pic has them as Bill Thomas headers. Jerry's 67-68 book (sorry but I couldn't find any other info on headers with smog tubes) has "Two of the known suppliers were Bill Thomas Race Cars (apparently with help from Douglass Muffler Mfg.) in Anaheim, California, and Kustom Headers in Flint Michigan."

The next page, has

Part Numbers - 1967 (Thomas style)
3917425/3917426 and 3927161/3927162 appear to be updated Thomas headers for 1968 with AIR system fittings and three-bolt collector flanges.

[DAWG]

Right, but I thought that the Kustom headers did not have provisions for the smog tubes.

thats what i ment .

[DAWG]

So whats new on the Z?

[DavidS]

So whats new on the Z?

Not much Dawg. I've been collecting NOS parts for months now. Mostly wear items like rubber parts, weatherstripping, items missing, and items totally rusted out. I'm trying to avoid all repop parts on the Z.

[DAWG]

good luck.

[DavidS]

Mike sent me these pictures today of suspension, rear-end, and misc components they have been restoring for the Z.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSCN1350.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_6375.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_6374.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSCN1354.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSCN1353.jpg
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/DSCN1351.jpg

[frankzlt1]

Nice dave. How is the rest of the car coming along

[DavidS]

Nice dave. How is the rest of the car coming along

Thanks Frank!

The body work is mostly done. They removed as little of the original sheet metal as they could. Pieces were either fabricated or sections were cut out of new panels to replace areas that were heavily pitted with holes or rusted through.

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/RestoOct2012/DSCN1334.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/RestoOct2012/DSCN1335.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/RestoOct2012/DSCN1338.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/RestoOct2012/DSCN0554.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/RestoOct2012/DSCN0559.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/RestoOct2012/DSCN0561.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/RestoOct2012/DSCN05601.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

another Mint Camaro will be in the garage!!! Lookin Good Man!!!!!!!

[DavidS]

another Mint Camaro will be in the garage!!! Lookin Good Man!!!!!!!

Thanks Pizza!

There will be one mutt car, one 1/2 chinese car, and one all-USA trailer-queen. LOL.

[ZFreie]

Thanks Pizza!

There will be one mutt car, one 1/2 chinese car, and one all-USA trailer-queen. LOL. I dont think I know anyone who would have anything bad to say about your cars lol all A+

[My84Z]

I think I am gonna like this one the most! Very nice

[frankzlt1]

Lookin great Dave . Thats great that your able save as much of the original metal.

[DavidS]

Thanks guys!

The goal is to have it ready for the Camaro Nationals in 216 days. About 5 of the former owners (all are ex-Air Force guys) said they want to go see it at the Nationals in Maryland.

The quarter panel body work is almost done.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_6385.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_6384.jpg

The original door panels I picked up on EBay were restored. The ones that were on the car were too far gone to repair.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_6381.jpg

The DZ 302 was rattle-can painted Chevy Orange at Precision Automotive, but Mike believes the shade of orange was not correct and is going to paint it correctly. He also coated the intake and restored the cap plug and re-installed it.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/IMG_6386.jpg

[ls6monte]

Looking pretty sweet Dave!

[frankzlt1]

Awesome work. That car is going to be just as nice as the yenco.

[jeff68]

David- Did they paint the intake? It kind of looks like it. If so, the judges may not like it. Also, check out CRG and Team Camaro for info on orange paint overspray on the intake manifold.

216 days? That's a tall order!!

[DavidS]

David- Did they paint the intake? It kind of looks like it. If so, the judges may not like it. Also, check out CRG and Team Camaro for info on orange paint overspray on the intake manifold.


Mike did paint the intake and you're right that the judges definitely won't like it painted. Mike tried painting it to make it look better since there is some discoloration and pitting, but I think we're going to have to find a better solution.

The only good thing is that the car will be in the BowTie class. All first year entries have to go into the Bowtie class unless a Legends judge already knows the car. With the BowTie class, the judging is much more relaxed.

216 days? That's a tall order!!

214 days now. lol.

Mike seems to think it's no problem since it didn't need loads of metal/body work. I'm not so sure.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

if the man sez he can do it he can do it!!! His Name Is Mike! Its What They Do!!!

[Formula413]

if the man sez he can do it he can do it!!! His Name Is Mike! Its What They Do!!!

Was this supposed to reassure David? :haha:

[DavidS]

Was this supposed to reassure David? :haha:

HA HA. Thanks Alex! You just burst my bubble.

Now I have to go back to staring at my clock: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20130621T00&p0=419&msg=DAYS+to+Camaro+Nationals

LOL.

[frankzlt1]

Hahaha thats great ^^^^^^^

[DavidS]

Body shell in primer.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Dec2012/IMG_6478.jpg

Parts to be painted black.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Dec2012/IMG_6486.jpg

Original shifter.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Dec2012/IMG_6488.jpg

Rear end and transmission are disassembled. Some parts are worn out. Someone many years ago put a loose magnet inside. Reverse gears are stripped.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Dec2012/IMG_6460.jpg

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Dec2012/IMG_6490.jpg

Close-up of the body.
http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l604/1969Z/Dec2012/IMG_6480.jpg

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

Man that tranny is Simple!!!! haha Looks Awesome! So when will this one be done!? Spring!?!?!?!?!?!

[ZFreie]

LOLOL there are as many parts and bolts in that whole car as an engine bay of a new car.

[DavidS]

Man that tranny is Simple!!!! haha Looks Awesome! So when will this one be done!? Spring!?!?!?!?!?!

It's a Muncie M21.

There are 197 days until the Camaro Nationals. That's the main deadline.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

little over 6 months. Not a Crazy Deadline. i bet they will do it. car needs WAYYY less work then the yenko did!

[DavidS]

little over 6 months. Not a Crazy Deadline. i bet they will do it. car needs WAYYY less work then the yenko did!

You are 100% right that it needs way less work. This one didn't have to become a skeleton. He will have it all primered soon!

[DavidS]

LOLOL there are as many parts and bolts in that whole car as an engine bay of a new car.

The engine is already back together. Precision Automotive in Simsbury rebuilt it about a year ago.

I believe that a lot of those bolts are for the frame/sheet metal parts.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

and some with ? marks!!!!! UUHHHH OHHHHHH hahaha

[DavidS]

and some with ? marks!!!!! UUHHHH OHHHHHH hahaha

HA! Those will be research projects. A local auto shop took the car apart for me (before I decided to bring it to Mike).

[ZFreie]

The engine is already back together. Precision Automotive in Simsbury rebuilt it about a year ago.

I believe that a lot of those bolts are for the frame/sheet metal parts. haha i was just saying it amazing how much more complicated cars have become :)

Looking good!

[jeff68]

David-
You'll be kicking yourself if you paint all that hardware.

The hardware (as well as all the shifter parts, and tons of other small detail parts) should be carefully cleaned then sent out for correct plating. Get in touch with Steve Gregori at Detail Plating http://www.detailplating.com/ .

For cadmium, use Aero Propellor: http://www.cadplating.com/

[DavidS]

David-
You'll be kicking yourself if you paint all that hardware.

The hardware (as well as all the shifter parts, and tons of other small detail parts) should be carefully cleaned then sent out for correct plating. Get in touch with Steve Gregori at Detail Plating http://www.detailplating.com/ .

For cadmium, use Aero Propellor: http://www.cadplating.com/

THANKS Jeff! I will review with Mike.

[jeff68]

^^ I think Mike uses a local place. Valley Plating maybe, I can't remember.

I can tell you that Steve Gregori does beautiful work, and if you are not satisfied for any reason he will do it over and make it right. He does zinc, but not cadmuim. Zinc is a much brighter finish than cad. I prefer the look of cad, but zinc plated parts should dull down over time a little.

[Formula413]

I still can't believe how much time and effort goes into a restoration like this. I'm glad these cars are in the hands of someone willing to go the distance to make them perfect, they deserve no less.

[jeff68]

David-
Here is an example of Steve's work doing silver zinc & gold zinc. These are the original sway bar end links off my car (new bushings obviously). I gently blasted everything with Biasil sand, then polished with a fine wire wheel before sending them to detailplating.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/EndLinksRestored001.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/EndLinksRestored002.jpg

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/jac04/EndLinksRestored004.jpg

[DavidS]

I still can't believe how much time and effort goes into a restoration like this. I'm glad these cars are in the hands of someone willing to go the distance to make them perfect, they deserve no less.

It is a headache at times.

If you're trying to make it "as it was sold", one problem is the tiny details. You could take a simple question like "what kind of intake manifold gasket goes on a first-gen" and run into 3 guys giving 3 different answers.

There are also weird issues like the color of the underbody. It is nearly impossible to get a straight answer to this but it seems that all restored cars that compete at the highest level in the Camaro Nationals get a 30% gloss black underbody. The only problem is that they were definitely not like that originally.

Another problem is that since original parts cost big $, there is a lot of fraud.

I could go on and on, but I think it would get very boring quickly.
--------------------------------------
Thanks for the encouragement!!!!!!

[DavidS]

David-
Here is an example of Steve's work doing silver zinc & gold zinc. These are the original sway bar end links off my car (new bushings obviously).

Very nice Jeff. Did you ever talk to Mike about Steve's work?

Have you had any chrome work done? I am not sure who I should send the Z door handles to.

[jeff68]

Very nice Jeff. Did you ever talk to Mike about Steve's work?
No. Mike had mentioned to me if I needed anything done he could send it to his place.

Have you had any chrome work done? I am not sure who I should send the Z door handles to.
Mike uses Advanced Plating. They did the windshield header moldings on my car. They look nice overall I guess. A few spots aren't perfect. I thought it was a little expensive at $500 for the pair of moldings considering they were sent NOS moldings. Oh well.

DO NOT send/bring anything to Nu-Chrome in Seekonk, MA. They ruined some of my stuff beyond repair, and lost some stuff too. Funny, though, they seemed to do a very nice job on my door handles.

The best place I have ever had chrome work done is D&S Custom Metal Restoration in Holyoke, MA. They did my rear view mirror, rear ash trays, shifter ball, sunvisor brackets, and convertible top hooks. Flawless, and I mean that. Dead nuts perfection. And if you have to ask how much it's going to cost or how quick it's going to get done, don't bother going there. The answers are "a lot" and "right after we finish this Pebble Beach car we're working on".

[jeff68]

It is a headache at times.

At times? Man, my head hurts all the time trying to get all the details the way I want them, and I'm not building a car to compete at a national level. If I were in charge of building your Z car, I'd be laying awake at night worrying about things.

[DAWG]

Rumour has it there is a new trailer in all this too?
wheres the pics?

[DavidS]

Rumour has it there is a new trailer in all this too?
wheres the pics?

I bought Rich's show stuff, then his trailer, and then his truck. The truck and trailer are about 10 years old.

He wrote an article about about trailer safety and pics are in the article. If you click on the trailer pic, you can see a larger pic.

http://www.corvettefever.com/techarticles/corp_0606_car_trailers/

[DavidS]

The best place I have ever had chrome work done is D&S Custom Metal Restoration in Holyoke, MA. They did my rear view mirror, rear ash trays, shifter ball, sunvisor brackets, and convertible top hooks. Flawless, and I mean that. Dead nuts perfection. And if you have to ask how much it's going to cost or how quick it's going to get done, don't bother going there. The answers are "a lot" and "right after we finish this Pebble Beach car we're working on".

I have heard a few stories that the owner is not easy to deal with. Did your run into any other problems?

[DavidS]

dropped off this morning. 2003 Silverado 2500HD, diesel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v239/pratt1/truck.jpg

[DAWG]

Nice truck!

youll love driving it!Dont forget to let the wife test drive it!
it might calm the waves hehe.

[DAWG]

Lol now you need to find a parking spot for all the toys????
Or a new house with 6 car garage etc?

[DavidS]

Dont forget to let the wife test drive it!
it might calm the waves hehe.

We just went out for a ride and Kerrie has had a change of heart. She went from hating the idea to really liking the truck a lot.

I think she expected a loud, smelly, nasty looking truck. She is definitely cool with it now.

Lol now you need to find a parking spot for all the toys????
Or a new house with 6 car garage etc?

Yep. Vehicles are everywhere.

[jeff68]

Or a new house with 6 car garage etc?

Yeah David, you need a car-guy castle. Trust you are already scoping out a site.

Take my advice, don't go too small on the garage. Mine is a 6-car, but 3 wide x 2 deep. I bought the house this way, so I didn't have a choice. However, it fills up fast. Definitely have a door for every car you want to drive on a regular basis, and have an "off-limits" area for the nice cars. Don't forget to have someplace to park that truck/trailer too.

Hey, what about the old Wagner car dealership? Is that still for sale?

[DavidS]

Yeah David, you need a car-guy castle. Trust you are already scoping out a site.

We've been looking for about 2 years now, but what we're looking for doesn't exist.

1. Alex has to be able to go the same school. There are two intermediate schools in Granby, CT so right away 1/2 the choices don't work. 1 more year in intermediate school and then we might have a few more options.

2. Must have at least 2 acres. Our lot right now is very small and I'm sick of looking at my neighbor's ricer car.

3. The wife would like a "nice looking" house. Her style is more of a McMansion type house, which is not for me. Something in the middle would be OK.

4. Garage - as you described.

5. Not on a mountain side. Alex likes playing baseball in the backyard and I don't feel like playing on a 45-degree angle.

With these conditions, we have not been able to find anything. Right now things are getting packed in but everything is manageable, and our ricer neighbor thinks we are mulletastic.


Hey, what about the old Wagner car dealership? Is that still for sale?

HA HA HA.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

aside from the school there are PLENTY of places like that near me. with A LOT more then 2 acres!!!!!

[DavidS]

aside from the school there are PLENTY of places like that near me. with A LOT more then 2 acres!!!!!

I HATE YOU. lol.

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

dont hate. MIGRATE!!!!

[DavidS]

dont hate. MIGRATE!!!!

Those that have a 4th should live in the north?

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

hahahahaha Shut It!!

[bottledbird68]

aside from the school there are PLENTY of places like that near me. with A LOT more then 2 acres!!!!!

Yep, we've discussed Virginia ourselves almost every time we visit down there.
We're stuck here for at least another 5.5 years until her oldest turns 18. After that who knows...

[ILuvPizzaTimes10]

i can take some pics of CHEAP land if you want. And its the best schools in the country right now!

[DavidS]

hahahahaha Shut It!!
hahahahaha. You suck.

How far are you from Frederick, Maryland?

Any chance we could meet up at the Camaro Nationals if Mike has the Z done in time?

[ls6monte]

hahahahaha. You suck.

How far are you from Frederick, Maryland?

Any chance we could meet up at the Camaro Nationals if Mike has the Z done in time?

He doesn't go to meets around here! What makes you say he will go to them down there? lol

[DavidS]

He doesn't go to meets around here! What makes you say he will go to them down there? lol

Hey Ron, both you guys were at Quabbin 2012 so I'm not sure who might show up!

Virginia Mike might not be too far away so I figured it was worth a shot.

BTW. Your car is a beauty and deserves an updated sig pic.

[ls6monte]

Hey Ron, both you guys were at Quabbin 2012 so I'm not sure who might show up!

Virginia Mike might not be too far away so I figured it was worth a shot.

BTW. Your car is a beauty and deserves an updated sig pic.

Thanks David! I'm waiting on just the right pic. I have some but each one isn't the best.